Hey limeys

Politics and other such topical creams.
nsc
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by nsc » 10 Aug 2009, 10:17am

so no real solutions that are practicable and could be put into use before another school year starts.

http://www.chavtowns.co.uk

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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla » 10 Aug 2009, 10:27am

What's astounding about your defence of this tactic is that it is straight out of 1984. Not a slippery slope or cynical abuse of language that we often cite as Orwellian, but constant surveillance. Cameras in the home uncontrolled by the resident. Will there be a haughty woman leading them in morning calisthenics and berating them as they fall behind? 1984 was supposed to be a warning, not a goddamn instruction manual.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Flex » 10 Aug 2009, 11:10am

Dr. Medulla wrote:What's astounding about your defence of this tactic is that it is straight out of 1984. Not a slippery slope or cynical abuse of language that we often cite as Orwellian, but constant surveillance. Cameras in the home uncontrolled by the resident. Will there be a haughty woman leading them in morning calisthenics and berating them as they fall behind? 1984 was supposed to be a warning, not a goddamn instruction manual.
At the risk of sounding like the IMCT Thought Police: word.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Wolter » 10 Aug 2009, 11:12am

Flex wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:What's astounding about your defence of this tactic is that it is straight out of 1984. Not a slippery slope or cynical abuse of language that we often cite as Orwellian, but constant surveillance. Cameras in the home uncontrolled by the resident. Will there be a haughty woman leading them in morning calisthenics and berating them as they fall behind? 1984 was supposed to be a warning, not a goddamn instruction manual.
At the risk of sounding like the IMCT Thought Police: word.
I see what you did there. But then again, so does Big Brother.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by eumaas » 10 Aug 2009, 1:10pm

nsc wrote:so no real solutions that are practicable and could be put into use before another school year starts.

http://www.chavtowns.co.uk
So you're saying that for you, totalitarianism straight out of Orwell, Huxley, and Foucault is the real and practicable solution that you support?
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

nsc
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by nsc » 10 Aug 2009, 3:09pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:What's astounding about your defence of this tactic is that it is straight out of 1984. Not a slippery slope or cynical abuse of language that we often cite as Orwellian, but constant surveillance. Cameras in the home uncontrolled by the resident. Will there be a haughty woman leading them in morning calisthenics and berating them as they fall behind? 1984 was supposed to be a warning, not a goddamn instruction manual.

what a drama queen. i wasn't defending it so much as acknowledging that at least the system was attempting to bring about positive change in these young lives. i was also hoping that the thought police would be able to come up with some real world solutions but so far no luck.

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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Flex » 10 Aug 2009, 3:14pm

nsc wrote:what a drama queen. i wasn't defending it so much as acknowledging that at least the system was attempting to bring about positive change in these young lives. i was also hoping that the thought police would be able to come up with some real world solutions but so far no luck.
Conditional incentives are pretty common practice in modern government. That's an extremely realistic option. Just because you refuse to call it realistic, doesn't make it unrealistic.

P.S. And, as I said before. mutual aid is extremely realistic. You could literally go out today and start engaging in it if you wanted.

Addendum: And with that, I'll bow out unless someone like Heston wants to chat about the topic more.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by nsc » 10 Aug 2009, 3:18pm

eumaas wrote:
nsc wrote:so no real solutions that are practicable and could be put into use before another school year starts.

http://www.chavtowns.co.uk
So you're saying that for you, totalitarianism straight out of Orwell, Huxley, and Foucault is the real and practicable solution that you support?
another drama queen without a solution.

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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla » 10 Aug 2009, 3:37pm

nsc wrote:i wasn't defending it so much as acknowledging that at least the system was attempting to bring about positive change in these young lives.
Prove that it's about positive change rather than just trying to control and institutionalize them. Modern incarceration techniques hasn't exactly had a great success rate for bringing about positive change, and few actually believe that it's about rehabilitation anymore—it's about control and punishment.
i was also hoping that the thought police would be able to come up with some real world solutions but so far no luck.
When you're trying to get out of a hole, step one is stop digging. So saying that further controlling tactics are a bad idea is a positive step inasmuch as it doesn't make it worse.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by eumaas » 10 Aug 2009, 4:00pm

nsc wrote:
eumaas wrote:
nsc wrote:so no real solutions that are practicable and could be put into use before another school year starts.

http://www.chavtowns.co.uk
So you're saying that for you, totalitarianism straight out of Orwell, Huxley, and Foucault is the real and practicable solution that you support?
another drama queen without a solution.
Nothing drama queen about it. This kind of surveillance is by the books totalitarian. If you don't believe me, read an encyclopedia article on totalitarianism or something. And not only that, but it's almost cartoonishly Orwellian in that it's the same measure talked about in 1984. Flex, Medulla, and I have posed the problem and suggested solutions. As Flex says, 1) there's nothing unusual or immediately unworkable about conditional incentives, and 2) community organizing and mutual aid are immediately available options as are mentorship programs and the like. None of these requires implementing surveillance and control, which has had a horrible track record of failure and evil in the 20th century.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla » 10 Aug 2009, 4:22pm

Remember the olden days, during the Cold War, when movies and television would show the difference between the freedom-loving, god-fearing West and the sinister surveillance-obsessed, controlling Eastern bloc communist countries? Boy, turns out that the KGB and all that monitoring of civilian life wasn't so bad.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by JennyB » 11 Aug 2009, 4:31am

Dr. Medulla wrote:Remember the olden days, during the Cold War, when movies and television would show the difference between the freedom-loving, god-fearing West and the sinister surveillance-obsessed, controlling Eastern bloc communist countries? Boy, turns out that the KGB and all that monitoring of civilian life wasn't so bad.
The movie The Lives of Others illustrates that beautifully.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Marky Dread » 11 Aug 2009, 5:56am

Dr. Medulla wrote:Remember the golden days, during the Cold War, when movies and television would show the difference between the freedom-loving, god-fearing West and the sinister surveillance-obsessed, controlling Eastern bloc communist countries? Boy, turns out that the KGB and all that monitoring of civilian life wasn't so bad.
Image
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla » 09 Sep 2009, 10:50am

Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

eumaas
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by eumaas » 09 Sep 2009, 10:56am

Dr. Medulla wrote:Alright, nanny state!
X(
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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