Hey limeys

Politics and other such topical creams.
Rat Patrol
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Rat Patrol » 02 Nov 2016, 5:18pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:Ha, no surprise, really, that Morrissey was/is pro-Brexit/Farage. Such a sweet and tender bigoted moron. And once again, Johnny Marr comes out as the better one of the Smiths.
http://www.nme.com/news/music/johnny-ma ... ts-1814488
This is that black pudding "Hey Limeys" thread and not the other one, right? I assume that's why Moz is being brought up in the news again for being a horrible human being: ashy liquid sausage byproduct mixed in overly ripe salad cream?
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla » 02 Nov 2016, 5:19pm

Rat Patrol wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:Ha, no surprise, really, that Morrissey was/is pro-Brexit/Farage. Such a sweet and tender bigoted moron. And once again, Johnny Marr comes out as the better one of the Smiths.
http://www.nme.com/news/music/johnny-ma ... ts-1814488
This is that black pudding "Hey Limeys" thread and not the other one, right? I assume that's why Moz is being brought up in the news again for being a horrible human being: ashy liquid sausage byproduct mixed in overly ripe salad cream?
Morrissey is officially pro-salad cream. Because he's awful.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Marky Dread » 02 Nov 2016, 6:25pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:Ha, no surprise, really, that Morrissey was/is pro-Brexit/Farage. Such a sweet and tender bigoted moron. And once again, Johnny Marr comes out as the better one of the Smiths.
http://www.nme.com/news/music/johnny-ma ... ts-1814488
...But why do you even care what Morrissey has to say about Brexit? He is not a politician and likes us all he is entitled to his view on the whole affair. In his rose tinted millionaire world it's a very different place to the England that actually exists and we all live in.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla » 02 Nov 2016, 6:57pm

Marky Dread wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:Ha, no surprise, really, that Morrissey was/is pro-Brexit/Farage. Such a sweet and tender bigoted moron. And once again, Johnny Marr comes out as the better one of the Smiths.
http://www.nme.com/news/music/johnny-ma ... ts-1814488
...But why do you even care what Morrissey has to say about Brexit? He is not a politician and likes us all he is entitled to his view on the whole affair. In his rose tinted millionaire world it's a very different place to the England that actually exists and we all live in.
No, you're right. I don't deeply care—I'm sniping to exercise my snark gland. But it does further chart his path away from that voice for shy outsiders to siding with the crude xenophobes like Farage.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Marky Dread » 03 Nov 2016, 9:14am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
Marky Dread wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:Ha, no surprise, really, that Morrissey was/is pro-Brexit/Farage. Such a sweet and tender bigoted moron. And once again, Johnny Marr comes out as the better one of the Smiths.
http://www.nme.com/news/music/johnny-ma ... ts-1814488
...But why do you even care what Morrissey has to say about Brexit? He is not a politician and likes us all he is entitled to his view on the whole affair. In his rose tinted millionaire world it's a very different place to the England that actually exists and we all live in.
No, you're right. I don't deeply care—I'm sniping to exercise my snark gland. But it does further chart his path away from that voice for shy outsiders to siding with the crude xenophobes like Farage.
Stupid comment removed.
Last edited by Marky Dread on 04 Nov 2016, 5:41am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Silent Majority » 03 Nov 2016, 9:16am

Marky Dread wrote: I dislike political correctness as much as I dislike racists.
As much as, really?
'But also: hey dude, you can just go looking for more glasses. They're all free now. '

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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Marky Dread » 03 Nov 2016, 9:25am

Silent Majority wrote:
Marky Dread wrote: I dislike political correctness as much as I dislike racists.
As much as, really?
.
Last edited by Marky Dread on 04 Nov 2016, 5:42am, edited 1 time in total.
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Inder
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Inder » 03 Nov 2016, 10:02am

Marky Dread wrote:
Silent Majority wrote:
Marky Dread wrote: I dislike political correctness as much as I dislike racists.
As much as, really?
Yes I'm fucking fed up living in a world where every word is scrutinised and becomes a chance for someone to point a finger at you and say "hey that's not right you can't say that". Some do-gooder making the rules up as they see fit as they go along. Bullshit like footballers wearing a poppy on their sleeves in case it upests some one when all they want to do is show their respects. People afraid of flying a flag with St. Georges cross on in case they are viewd as racists.
1) The idea of "political correctness" first came into prominence among racists and assholes as a way to defend their right to say stupid shit while complaining about being blackballed for all the stupid shit they've said. You're entitled to say whatever you want. People are also entitled to have nothing to do with you if they find what you're saying offensive and repugnant.

2) FIFA can do whatever they want with the uniforms in their league. It's not a big fucking deal and the public isn't in any danger of forgetting Remembrance Day because the PC Football Police won't allow athletes to stick a plastic flower on their kit.

3) Maybe get mad at the racists and neo-Nazis whose use of the St. George's Cross has led to its association with racists and neo-Nazis instead of the people who get uncomfortable around it.
I'm guilty of using rascist terms and I'm not afraid to use those terms or admit to using them but I'm not a racist. I don't hate anybody for their place of birth or the colour of the skin they were born in. I dislike political correctness as much as I dislike racists.
Which racist terms are you not afraid to use?

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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Marky Dread » 03 Nov 2016, 10:19am

Inder wrote:
Marky Dread wrote:
Silent Majority wrote:
Marky Dread wrote: I dislike political correctness as much as I dislike racists.
As much as, really?
Yes I'm fucking fed up living in a world where every word is scrutinised and becomes a chance for someone to point a finger at you and say "hey that's not right you can't say that". Some do-gooder making the rules up as they see fit as they go along. Bullshit like footballers wearing a poppy on their sleeves in case it upests some one when all they want to do is show their respects. People afraid of flying a flag with St. Georges cross on in case they are viewd as racists.
1) The idea of "political correctness" first came into prominence among racists and assholes as a way to defend their right to say stupid shit while complaining about being blackballed for all the stupid shit they've said. You're entitled to say whatever you want. People are also entitled to have nothing to do with you if they find what you're saying offensive and repugnant.

2) FIFA can do whatever they want with the uniforms in their league. It's not a big fucking deal and the public isn't in any danger of forgetting Remembrance Day because the PC Football Police won't allow athletes to stick a plastic flower on their kit.

3) Maybe get mad at the racists and neo-Nazis whose use of the St. George's Cross has led to its association with racists and neo-Nazis instead of the people who get uncomfortable around it.
I'm guilty of using rascist terms and I'm not afraid to use those terms or admit to using them but I'm not a racist. I don't hate anybody for their place of birth or the colour of the skin they were born in. I dislike political correctness as much as I dislike racists.
Which racist terms are you not afraid to use?
1. I think and believe you should be able say what you like as long as your intentions are not to harm anyone or are of a hateful nature.

2. As to FIFA being allowed to do what they want with the uniforms in their league that's completely fine but football is a peoples sport and if if it's not a big deal why make it a big deal in the first place?

3. Racist terms : example when I was a kid we would shop at our local corner shop and everyone would call it "the Paki shop" now that's a racist term and no one ever thought anything of it. Where I currently work we have a shop called "Smazeck" which people find hard to pronounce. The Polish people who work in the shop call it "the Polish shop" themselves and there is no racism involved. We use racism in everyday speak without realising because we mean no harm. But someone will say "hey you can't say that, that's not correct". Making something out of nothing where the racism didn't exist it now becomes.
Last edited by Marky Dread on 03 Nov 2016, 11:17am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla » 03 Nov 2016, 10:23am

(What follows is not directed at Marky, but more a general comment about pc.)

Here's the thing about political correctness: It's always existed. It's just the term that we're using to describe political, social, cultural, and economic norms. At one time, it was politically correct (or at least not politically incorrect) to hate Catholics and Jews, or to fire homosexuals or to oppose interracial relationships. It was politically incorrect to shack up. It was politically incorrect to proclaim yourself an atheist or to reject segregation. Being politically incorrect on those issues—shit in our parents' lifetimes, keep in mind—was grounds for social or economic punishment, sometimes even legal. Complaining about political correctness isn't about standing up for free speech so much as desiring older forms of speech and ideas that we currently regard as offensive to not carry consequences.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the kind of speech that is now considered politically incorrect is about including people who have traditionally been marginalized. It used to be that white men, especially those above working class status, could say and do whatever the fuck they wanted. What's changing is that the targets of that freedom to act capriciously have gained a stake and say in social norms, necessarily at the expense of white men. Being born a white male is still a winning lottery ticket, but it's no longer quite so fantastic. But I'm fine with losing that kind of privilege because it makes for a more just society, of actually enacting the values of the Enlightenment. If women, homosexuals, and non-whites get pissed off over shitty things that white men say about them and do to them, you know, maybe there's a point behind it and instead of being defensive we try to exercise more restraint in how we use our privilege.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Marky Dread » 03 Nov 2016, 10:35am

Dr. Medulla wrote:(What follows is not directed at Marky, but more a general comment about pc.)

Here's the thing about political correctness: It's always existed. It's just the term that we're using to describe political, social, cultural, and economic norms. At one time, it was politically correct (or at least not politically incorrect) to hate Catholics and Jews, or to fire homosexuals or to oppose interracial relationships. It was politically incorrect to shack up. It was politically incorrect to proclaim yourself an atheist or to reject segregation. Being politically incorrect on those issues—shit in our parents' lifetimes, keep in mind—was grounds for social or economic punishment, sometimes even legal. Complaining about political correctness isn't about standing up for free speech so much as desiring older forms of speech and ideas that we currently regard as offensive to not carry consequences.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the kind of speech that is now considered politically incorrect is about including people who have traditionally been marginalized. It used to be that white men, especially those above working class status, could say and do whatever the fuck they wanted. What's changing is that the targets of that freedom to act capriciously have gained a stake and say in social norms, necessarily at the expense of white men. Being born a white male is still a winning lottery ticket, but it's no longer quite so fantastic. But I'm fine with losing that kind of privilege because it makes for a more just society, of actually enacting the values of the Enlightenment. If women, homosexuals, and non-whites get pissed off over shitty things that white men say about them and do to them, you know, maybe there's a point behind it and instead of being defensive we try to exercise more restraint in how we use our privilege.
It's difficult, do we accept things because they are the norm and everyday speak without any thought process to who we may be hurting? Is it a case of doing something in innocence then later realiazing we were being offensive all the while until that somebody pointed out "you really shouldn't say that"?

I like the idea of people being protected from racism that is deliberate. I used to watch the TV show "Love Thy Neighbour" in the 70's and found it very funny, am I now a racist for laughing at someone who called his black neighbour "a sambo" or the white neighbour "a honky"? The satire in that show always showed up the ignorance of the white guy. That show would not be shown now so we are not allowed to laugh at the ignorance of each other.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla » 03 Nov 2016, 10:51am

Marky Dread wrote:It's difficult, do we accept things because they are the norm and everyday speak without any thought process to who we may be hurting? Is it a case of doing something in innocence then later realiazing we were being offensive all the while until that somebody pointed out "you really shouldn't say that"?
It is difficult because for us older guys, it involves unlearning stuff that we believed was normal and neutral, but in fact reinforces unmerited privilege. So when someone calls us out for saying something offensive, I think we should reject our usual posture of aggressive defensiveness—"Settle down, guy. I'm not being offensive."—and instead pause and consider whether we are thoughtlessly contributing to a language and culture of marginalization. And make an effort to speak and act in a way that doesn't punch down, including when it's down without thought or intent.
I like the idea of people being protected from racism that is deliberate. I used to watch the TV show "Love Thy Neighbour" in the 70's and found it very funny, am I now a racist for laughing at someone who called his black neighbour "a sambo" or the white neighbour "a honky"? The satire in that show always showed up the ignorance of the white guy. That show would not be shown now so we are not allowed to laugh at the ignorance of each other.
Absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying satire of racism. All In the Family is still shocking and hilarious in its depictions of bigotry. I don't the goal should be locking up certain words and ideas in a box and never saying or thinking them again. It's about being conscious of intent and the hurt they can cause when used so unconsciously as to establish norms of hierarchy. Being conscious of your language is a way of owning it and accepting consequences. Satire, when done well, raises those unconscious norms and allows us to realize why they're awful.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Marky Dread » 03 Nov 2016, 11:02am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
Marky Dread wrote:It's difficult, do we accept things because they are the norm and everyday speak without any thought process to who we may be hurting? Is it a case of doing something in innocence then later realiazing we were being offensive all the while until that somebody pointed out "you really shouldn't say that"?
It is difficult because for us older guys, it involves unlearning stuff that we believed was normal and neutral, but in fact reinforces unmerited privilege. So when someone calls us out for saying something offensive, I think we should reject our usual posture of aggressive defensiveness—"Settle down, guy. I'm not being offensive."—and instead pause and consider whether we are thoughtlessly contributing to a language and culture of marginalization. And make an effort to speak and act in a way that doesn't punch down, including when it's down without thought or intent.
I like the idea of people being protected from racism that is deliberate. I used to watch the TV show "Love Thy Neighbour" in the 70's and found it very funny, am I now a racist for laughing at someone who called his black neighbour "a sambo" or the white neighbour "a honky"? The satire in that show always showed up the ignorance of the white guy. That show would not be shown now so we are not allowed to laugh at the ignorance of each other.
Absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying satire of racism. All In the Family is still shocking and hilarious in its depictions of bigotry. I don't the goal should be locking up certain words and ideas in a box and never saying or thinking them again. It's about being conscious of intent and the hurt they can cause when used so unconsciously as to establish norms of hierarchy. Being conscious of your language is a way of owning it and accepting consequences. Satire, when done well, raises those unconscious norms and allows us to realize why they're awful.
I watched the pilot episode of "Love Thy Neighbour" (Youtube) with my work colleague who's from Sierra Leone and he couldn't stop laughing. He asked why it wasn't on TV anymore and I did my feeble best to explain the political correctness issues.

Here it is.


I agree totally with your first point of unlearning stuff we once found normal. My mum will only ever call a black person a colored person because she believes it correct. I've had many arguments with her over it , now I know she isn't racist and wouldn't hurt anyone.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Marky Dread » 03 Nov 2016, 11:36am

3) Maybe get mad at the racists and neo-Nazis whose use of the St. George's Cross has led to its association with racists and neo-Nazis instead of the people who get uncomfortable around it.

Missed this first time of reading.

Of course I am angry at those who have misappropriated the St. George's flag and those cowards who hide behind it to propagate their evil bile. However I am also annoyed at those in the local councils who will not let the flag be flown because of it's association with those shitty groups. All this does is add to fear and hatred of the flag and allow it's meaning to be distorted. Not everyone who wants to fly their national flag is a racist. During the last world cup a friend of mine who works in the local council offices was told to take down this little St. George's flag he had tied above his desk. Yet he pointed out that people working in the same office as him were not told to take down their respective countries flags. If we let the racists and Neo-Nazis hijack the flag and accept it now stands for hatred then what next?
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by 101Walterton » 03 Nov 2016, 2:25pm

When it comes to humour / jokes there is always a 'victim' the person who is made fun of whether it is a man, a woman, a fat guy, a Pom, an Irishman, a hipster, a Scotman, a nun, a ginger, an Essex girl etc.
Why is it any more offensive to tell a joke based on race?

( I know Scots, Irish, English are races but you get my point).

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