Hey limeys

Politics and other such topical creams.
nsc
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by nsc »

Flex wrote:
101Walterton wrote:
Flex wrote:
101Walterton wrote:I think you will find Michael Laws was making a point with his tongue firmly in his cheek.
Evidence?
I know the bloke.
Meaningless.
how can it be meaningless? he says he know's the guy and he's vouching for him and that's good enough for me.

eumaas
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by eumaas »

101Walterton wrote:I think you will find Michael Laws was making a point with his tongue firmly in his cheek.
From his website:
MAYOR SAYS ‘DOMINION-POST’ STORY “INACCURATE & MISLEADING”

Mayor Michael Laws says that a ‘Dominion-Post’ story by young journalist Simon Wood saying that he suggested welfare beneficiaries be sterilised “is completely wrong, I did not say that and I have never said that”.

“What I said – and have written and publicly opined on many occasions is this:

1. That the level of child abuse and child murder in this country is unacceptable and getting worse.

2. That there is a group within our society who give their children no hope nor opportunity from the moment that they are born. That these ‘parents’ are known to authorities – social workers, the Police and CYFS – and yet the authorities can only intervene after children have been harmed.

3. That hundreds of children are removed from their parents’ care every year and thousands more come to CYFS attention because of cruelty, drug and drink addiction, violence and repeated abuse. That some children these days are even removed by CYFS at birth.

4. That it would be far better for this appalling underclass to be offered financial inducements not to have children, given the toxic environment that they would provide for any child in their care. And that this is the group most likely to place their children in harm’s way and to be killed and/or abused.

5.That the consequent financial and social savings to our community would be considerable. There are too many people who should not have children.

6.That all the liberal approaches on this issue have failed – education, public awareness campaigns, anti-smacking legislation – promoted by groups like Barnardos, the Child Poverty Action Group, the Children’s Commissioner and other such groups who are targeting mainstream parents and not problem ones.”

Mayor Laws says that most welfare beneficiaries are good parents – “and I’ve always said that”.

“Most beneficiaries regard the benefit as a temporary arrangement. But there are some who regard it as a lifestyle – who abuse it and their children. They were the target of my comments yesterday.

“It was the Dominion-Post who mistakenly said all beneficiaries – not me. I’ve had problems with Simon Wood getting his facts wrong when he was a journalist with the ‘Wanganui Chronicle’. He has done it again.

“In my interview with him yesterday, I made all the above points. Obviously English comprehension was not his strong point. My direct quotes do not support his summation.”
But then also on his website:
PRESS RELEASE

Michael Laws
Mayor
Wanganui District Council

Fairfax/Stuff Internet Poll: Final Result
What do you think of Michael Laws' proposal on offering voluntary sterilisation?

It's a great idea
4813 votes, 69.5%

It's morally wrong
2117 votes, 30.5%

Total 6930 votes
Links to this story:
Wanganui Mayor Michael Laws has hit back at reports he suggested all beneficiaries be sterilised, saying his comments were misinterpreted.

Mr Laws raised the idea of sterilisation for the "underclass" in exchange for a $10,000 payment as a solution to the child abuse problem.

He offered his observations after he was approached by The Dominion Post for comment on the death of two-year-old Wanganui boy Karl Perigo-Check, the son of a convicted murderer and gang member.

When asked to define "underclass", his explanation was: "A group of people who have no stake in our society, who are certainly welfare dependent, who have alcohol and drug problems and usually are criminals or consort with criminals."

He was reported as saying "the children of beneficiaries, drug addicts and criminals had little chance in life", which he said was misleading.

In a statement today, Mr Laws said most welfare beneficiaries are good parents.

"Most beneficiaries regard the benefit as a temporary arrangement. But there are some who regard it as a lifestyle, who abuse it and their children. They were the target of my comments yesterday."

He stood by his comments that the underclass he described be sterilised.

"There is a group within our society who give their children no hope nor opportunity from the moment that they are born. Hundreds of children are removed from their parents' care every year and thousands more come to CYFS attention because of cruelty, drug and drink addiction, violence and repeated abuse.

"It would be far better for this appalling underclass to be offered financial inducements not to have children, given the toxic environment that they would provide for any child in their care ... this is the group most likely to place their children in harm's way and to be killed and/or abused.

"There are too many people who should not have children."
I'm unclear whether he means sterilization or contraception.
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101Walterton
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by 101Walterton »

Flex wrote:
101Walterton wrote:
Flex wrote:
101Walterton wrote:I think you will find Michael Laws was making a point with his tongue firmly in his cheek.
Evidence?
I know the bloke.
Meaningless.
Do you know anything about Michael Laws or what he is about? Without Googling his name I suspect not.

eumaas
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by eumaas »

I don't know whether he's proposing sterilization, as the original story, the Stuff article, and the poll on his website put it, or just voluntary contraception as his other press release might imply. However, he doesn't seem to be joking. What are your thoughts in light of his press releases, Wally?
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Dr. Medulla »

101Walterton wrote:
Flex wrote:
101Walterton wrote:
Flex wrote:
101Walterton wrote:I think you will find Michael Laws was making a point with his tongue firmly in his cheek.
Evidence?
I know the bloke.
Meaningless.
Do you know anything about Michael Laws or what he is about? Without Googling his name I suspect not.
No, the point is just having a personal relationship with a guy isn't sufficient proof. When cops get busted for abusing their authority, for example, family and friends are always available to say, "No way Pete would have been shaking down shopkeepers for money." Just because Pete the cop is a decent guy when with them doesn't mean he's not a corrupt bastard in other aspects of his life.
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eumaas
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by eumaas »

Purple Hayes wrote:Growing up in the 70's every street used to have at least one "shameless" family, loads of kids, garden looks like a scrapyard, fat parents who never seemed to lift a finger, nowadays you have whole streets like it.

Maybe simplistic but I think it was Thatcher and her policies that are directly to blame, the gap between rich and poor in this country has never been so vast. A lot of people missed the "big grab" and basically gave up any hope of bettering themselves, their kids have inherited their values with disasterous results. A solution? Fuck knows? It's a real mess :disshame:
Thatcher's probably key, you're right. Widen the wealth gap, and then make it so being on welfare is more advantageous than working--well, what do you expect? People will follow incentives.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

Flex
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Flex »

My two esteemed colleagues in the Thought Police already beat me to the punch in the content my response.
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Flex »

eumaas wrote:I don't know whether he's proposing sterilization, as the original story, the Stuff article, and the poll on his website put it, or just voluntary contraception as his other press release might imply. However, he doesn't seem to be joking. What are your thoughts in light of his press releases, Wally?
At best, he seems to be saying the government should incentivize poor people to not have children, which is still Foucault in action and horrible on a number of levels.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
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101Walterton
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by 101Walterton »

Michael Laws is a radio talkback host and headline grabbing journalist,he does this day in and day out. He is making a point but he is taking the piss at the same time.

Flex
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Flex »

101Walterton wrote:Michael Laws is a radio talkback host and headline grabbing journalist,he does this day in and day out. He is making a point but he is taking the piss at the same time.
How is that stance reflected in his press releases?
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

101Walterton
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by 101Walterton »

Flex wrote:
101Walterton wrote:Michael Laws is a radio talkback host and headline grabbing journalist,he does this day in and day out. He is making a point but he is taking the piss at the same time.
How is that stance reflected in his press releases?
It wasn't written for Flex from Small Town, Middle America.

Flex
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Flex »

101Walterton wrote:
Flex wrote:
101Walterton wrote:Michael Laws is a radio talkback host and headline grabbing journalist,he does this day in and day out. He is making a point but he is taking the piss at the same time.
How is that stance reflected in his press releases?
It wasn't written for Flex from Small Town, Middle America.
So explain it to me.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

101Walterton
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by 101Walterton »

Flex wrote:
101Walterton wrote:
Flex wrote:
101Walterton wrote:Michael Laws is a radio talkback host and headline grabbing journalist,he does this day in and day out. He is making a point but he is taking the piss at the same time.
How is that stance reflected in his press releases?
It wasn't written for Flex from Small Town, Middle America.
So explain it to me.
I have, he is taking the piss.

Flex
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by Flex »

101Walterton wrote:I have, he is taking the piss.
Stating a position isn't the same as explaining a position. You're saying I lack the contextual understanding to properly interpret those comments and press releases so I'm asking you to please flesh out why the comments should be understood as you say they should and not take them closer to face value as an outside observer might. His press releases seem to suggest he's fairly serious about government guided breeding, if not outright sterilization.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

101Walterton
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Re: Hey limeys

Post by 101Walterton »

Flex wrote:
101Walterton wrote:I have, he is taking the piss.
Stating a position isn't the same as explaining a position. You're saying I lack the contextual understanding to properly interpret those comments and press releases so I'm asking you to please flesh out why the comments should be understood as you say they should and not take them closer to face value as an outside observer might. His press releases seem to suggest he's fairly serious about government guided breeding, if not outright sterilization.
I am not saying you lack the contextual understanding to properly interpret those comments and press releases,I am saying they weren't written for you they were written for Micael Laws 'audience' who know what he is about and know what to expect from him. As you don't (why would you he is Mayor of a town you have never heard of and probably can't even pronounce), I was tipping you off not to take his comments too seriously. If you want to discuss the merits of Michael Laws remarks go ahead but count me out.

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