hooky...

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eumaas
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hooky...

Post by eumaas » 15 Jul 2008, 12:25pm

"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: hooky...

Post by threecoffins » 15 Jul 2008, 12:39pm

It's like a cheap spaghetti western where the lone gunman mysteriously kills 50 guys without reloading his six shooter. Sirhan Sirhan, the Man With One Name (Repeated).

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Re: hooky...

Post by eumaas » 15 Jul 2008, 12:39pm

threecoffins wrote:
It's like a cheap spaghetti western where the lone gunman mysteriously kills 50 guys without reloading his six shooter. Sirhan Sirhan, the Man With One Name (Repeated).
ahhaha! post of the day
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: hooky...

Post by Dr. Medulla » 15 Jul 2008, 12:42pm

No, I hadn't—thanks. The powder burn and number of bullet holes inconsistencies are why I've been dubious about the official explanation, and this acoustic analysis is just another reason to be doubtful.

When I listened to "The Last Campaign" this spring, about RFK's '68 run, one of things that produced an actual physical reaction in my gut, was the coroner's comment that, because it was such a small caliber bullet, if the fatal shot had missed it's mark by as little as one centimeter, RFK would have been out of the hospital and on the campaign trail in under a week. One centimeter. That kind of information makes his assassination even more cruel.
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eumaas
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Re: hooky...

Post by eumaas » 15 Jul 2008, 2:01pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:No, I hadn't—thanks. The powder burn and number of bullet holes inconsistencies are why I've been dubious about the official explanation, and this acoustic analysis is just another reason to be doubtful.

When I listened to "The Last Campaign" this spring, about RFK's '68 run, one of things that produced an actual physical reaction in my gut, was the coroner's comment that, because it was such a small caliber bullet, if the fatal shot had missed it's mark by as little as one centimeter, RFK would have been out of the hospital and on the campaign trail in under a week. One centimeter. That kind of information makes his assassination even more cruel.
Eh. For me it's more a puzzle--I don't have much personal feeling towards him. Always struck me as just another politician.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: hooky...

Post by Dr. Medulla » 15 Jul 2008, 2:22pm

eumaas wrote:Always struck me as just another politician.
Pre-'64 or '66, I'd mostly agree. Definitely after '66, tho, he was determined to have Americans face up to dealing with what he regarded as immoralities at home—despair on Indian reservations, urban and rural poverty—and abroad, chiefly Vietnam. His '68 campaign was remarkable for him doing and talking about the things that he wanted to talk about and do rather than the politically expedient things. To name just one example, he blew off meetings with delegates and city bosses to go to reservations where no one voted anyway because he knew the press was covering him and it was a way of exposing that shame to Americans. When major American cities rioted after King's assassination, Indianapolis, where Robert Kennedy spoke to a large crowd of angry blacks and uneasy whites, remained mostly peaceful. He somehow had the support of both poor blacks and increasingly bitter blue collar whites (the latter going for Wallace in November). I don't idolize people, but Robert Kennedy is as close as I get to having an idol. The bastard was committed to holding his country up to a higher standard and demanded that the underclass become full and equal partners in their society. American politics, arguably, still hasn't recovered from what he offered.
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Re: hooky...

Post by classof77 » 23 Jul 2008, 11:54pm

1968....King and RFK assassinated; race riots breaking out in most major US cities (and some, like Cleveland's Hough neighborhood, spontaneously); Soviets invade Czechoslovakia; student riots in Paris followed by a general strike; the Tet offensive, the riots in Chicago at the DNC; black-American Olympians raising their fists on the podium in Mexico City (one of the 20c most enduring symbols)....those are just the things I remember (great year to become politically aware :( )

Could RFK have won the presidency? Winning the CA primary was huge but would he have beaten Humphrey? And if so could he beat Nixon? It's great to speculate that he could have been a president that made a difference but....there is a whole lot of fucking buts. I'm skeptical about the "official" facts of his assassination but also find speculating on "whodunits" wearisome. He was AG during turbulent times and the "usual suspects" could probably fill a phone book.

Ultimately, I think big business would have installed Nixon. In defeat RFK--while still having a distinguished senatorial career-- would find solace in alcohol and philandering (it did kind of run in the family). Growing up in the 60's has kind of left me bitter and cynical (too young for the free sex and drugs but old enough to realize there were no blacks in Maybury and if there were they would have lynched them.)

1968...So many possibilities. 2008...Trying to recover lost ground.

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Re: hooky...

Post by Dr. Medulla » 24 Jul 2008, 8:57am

classof77 wrote:1968....King and RFK assassinated; race riots breaking out in most major US cities (and some, like Cleveland's Hough neighborhood, spontaneously); Soviets invade Czechoslovakia; student riots in Paris followed by a general strike; the Tet offensive, the riots in Chicago at the DNC; black-American Olympians raising their fists on the podium in Mexico City (one of the 20c most enduring symbols)....those are just the things I remember (great year to become politically aware :( )

Could RFK have won the presidency? Winning the CA primary was huge but would he have beaten Humphrey? And if so could he beat Nixon? It's great to speculate that he could have been a president that made a difference but....there is a whole lot of fucking buts. I'm skeptical about the "official" facts of his assassination but also find speculating on "whodunits" wearisome. He was AG during turbulent times and the "usual suspects" could probably fill a phone book.

Ultimately, I think big business would have installed Nixon. In defeat RFK--while still having a distinguished senatorial career-- would find solace in alcohol and philandering (it did kind of run in the family). Growing up in the 60's has kind of left me bitter and cynical (too young for the free sex and drugs but old enough to realize there were no blacks in Maybury and if there were they would have lynched them.)

1968...So many possibilities. 2008...Trying to recover lost ground.
I don't think there's any question that RFK would have had the '68 nomination. Daley loved Bobby because he also loved JFK. He pretty much told Bobby that if he won in California, he'd make sure the city bosses would come around. So, yeah, I don't doubt that he'd pretty much clinched the nomination the night he was shot. As for beating Nixon, well, that's definitely harder to tell. On the one hand, RFK could have peeled off a lot of Nixon's blue collar support, as well as Wallace voters, plus how many doves and other liberals stayed home rather than vote for LBJ's water carrier? Then there's also the notion of people wanting a restoration of Camelot, however ludicrous that was. Bobby's early campaigning in '68 was dominated by crowds who wanted his brother back. So, I think the votes were definitely there in a general election, but the other side of the coin is how radicalized does everything become when you don't have two throwback candidates? Humphrey may not have inspired but he didn't scare either, and Bobby may have scared more than a few if he was seen as sincere about his aims. My gut tells me he would have beat NIxon largely because Nixon didn't win so much as he was judged the lesser of two evils. In a contest against Bobby, Nixon's blah would have been all the more apparent.
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

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