No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

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matedog
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog »

Flex wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 2:42pm
Sounds like the new Michael Jackson documentary, Leaving Neverland, revives the sexual abuse allegations that long dogged MJ to, in this environment, damning effect: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/opin ... rland.html
I'll tell you, I don't believe Wade Robson. Or the Arvizo claim in like 03.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by WestwayKid »

Flex wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 2:42pm
Sounds like the new Michael Jackson documentary, Leaving Neverland, revives the sexual abuse allegations that long dogged MJ to, in this environment, damning effect: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/opin ... rland.html
http://www.joycerey.com/beverly-hills-p ... al-estate/

Neverland Ranch is still on the market!
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:01am
Flex wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 2:42pm
Sounds like the new Michael Jackson documentary, Leaving Neverland, revives the sexual abuse allegations that long dogged MJ to, in this environment, damning effect: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/opin ... rland.html
I'll tell you, I don't believe Wade Robson. Or the Arvizo claim in like 03.
Whoa. Why?
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by WestwayKid »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:42am
matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:01am
Flex wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 2:42pm
Sounds like the new Michael Jackson documentary, Leaving Neverland, revives the sexual abuse allegations that long dogged MJ to, in this environment, damning effect: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/opin ... rland.html
I'll tell you, I don't believe Wade Robson. Or the Arvizo claim in like 03.
Whoa. Why?
I've honestly never been able to decide whether or not I think he is/was guilty. I've always leaned towards him being guilty, but then there is just enough reasonable doubt in my mind...
"Geoff who takes kids camping is dead all the boys except Rusty are missing." - revbob
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Silent Majority »

Believe victims, friends.
Authority is supposedly grounded in wisdom, but I could see from a very early age that authority was only a system of control and it didn't have any inherent wisdom. I quickly realised that you either became a power or you were crushed


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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by WestwayKid »

Silent Majority wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:58am
Believe victims, friends.
Definitely.
"Geoff who takes kids camping is dead all the boys except Rusty are missing." - revbob
"Tom checks the ingredients on "Uncle Pusher's Old Timey Cocaine Filled Cider" - Silent Majority

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:42am
matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:01am
Flex wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 2:42pm
Sounds like the new Michael Jackson documentary, Leaving Neverland, revives the sexual abuse allegations that long dogged MJ to, in this environment, damning effect: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/opin ... rland.html
I'll tell you, I don't believe Wade Robson. Or the Arvizo claim in like 03.
Whoa. Why?
I think we've been over this before, Arvizo's family had a pretty significant history of questionable lawsuits and grifting. His mom seems particularly shitty.

Wade Robson had testified numerous times that Jackson never did anything to him. Jackson dies, Robson needs money, and all of a sudden he recovers memories and sues the estate for $1.5b after failing to land a book deal claiming sex abuse.

Both incidents were shitty people/families who were desperate for money. It seems very plausible that they would lie about such a horrible thing for what could be a substantial sum of money.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

matedog
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog »

Silent Majority wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:58am
Believe victims, friends.
I feel shitty for not doing so in this case. But given the facts, I have to question what are wretched allegations against someone.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

matedog
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog »

Here's where we discussed this before: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31&hilit=robson&start=27930
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla »

matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 12:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:42am
matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:01am
Flex wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 2:42pm
Sounds like the new Michael Jackson documentary, Leaving Neverland, revives the sexual abuse allegations that long dogged MJ to, in this environment, damning effect: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/opin ... rland.html
I'll tell you, I don't believe Wade Robson. Or the Arvizo claim in like 03.
Whoa. Why?
I think we've been over this before, Arvizo's family had a pretty significant history of questionable lawsuits and grifting. His mom seems particularly shitty.

Wade Robson had testified numerous times that Jackson never did anything to him. Jackson dies, Robson needs money, and all of a sudden he recovers memories and sues the estate for $1.5b after failing to land a book deal claiming sex abuse.

Both incidents were shitty people/families who were desperate for money. It seems very plausible that they would lie about such a horrible thing for what could be a substantial sum of money.
Enh, maybe. But Jackson forfeited the benefit of the doubt a long time back, and we should well appreciate that celebrities' fame and wealth encourage more than a few to abuse their status (i.e., MeToo). Yeah, it's plausible that people were lying, but more probable that Jackson was a pedophile who used his celebrity to gather prey.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Flex »

matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 12:10pm
I feel shitty for not doing so in this case. But given the facts, I have to question what are wretched allegations against someone.
You gonna watch the documentary to see if it changes your mind?
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by WestwayKid »

I was never a big fan - but I can still vividly remember the day he died. It was a really nice June afternoon in Milwaukee. I heard the news that paramedics were responding to an incident at this residence. We had closed on our house in the morning and that evening we went with my mom and dad to watch a Beatles tribute band in a county part and somewhere during the set the host of the weekly concert series - a local Milwaukee radio jock - announced to the crowd that Michael Jackson had died. It was weird - I'm sure not John Lennon level - but still kind of crazy.
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matedog
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog »

Flex wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 12:21pm
matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 12:10pm
I feel shitty for not doing so in this case. But given the facts, I have to question what are wretched allegations against someone.
You gonna watch the documentary to see if it changes your mind?
Maybe. I should probably read up on the cases more in conjunction or prior.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by WestwayKid »

Regarding the allegations - I feel like there might have been some instances where people took advantage of the situation - but not necessarily of him. I think he probably did some very shady things and that left him open - especially after he was acquitted - for other people to come forward. My ex-wife always thought he was innocent. She thought his reclusive lifestyle and apparently stunted emotional growth made him an easy mark.
"Geoff who takes kids camping is dead all the boys except Rusty are missing." - revbob
"Tom checks the ingredients on "Uncle Pusher's Old Timey Cocaine Filled Cider" - Silent Majority

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by 101Walterton »

matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 12:09pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:42am
matedog wrote:
20 Feb 2019, 11:01am
Flex wrote:
18 Feb 2019, 2:42pm
Sounds like the new Michael Jackson documentary, Leaving Neverland, revives the sexual abuse allegations that long dogged MJ to, in this environment, damning effect: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/opin ... rland.html
I'll tell you, I don't believe Wade Robson. Or the Arvizo claim in like 03.
Whoa. Why?
I think we've been over this before, Arvizo's family had a pretty significant history of questionable lawsuits and grifting. His mom seems particularly shitty.

Wade Robson had testified numerous times that Jackson never did anything to him. Jackson dies, Robson needs money, and all of a sudden he recovers memories and sues the estate for $1.5b after failing to land a book deal claiming sex abuse.

Both incidents were shitty people/families who were desperate for money. It seems very plausible that they would lie about such a horrible thing for what could be a substantial sum of money.
Perhaps Robson denied all allegation when Jackson was alive for same reason he is making them now he is dead.
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