No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog » 15 Oct 2018, 11:02am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 10:20am
Quick reminder: Hillary Clinton is a bad person.
https://splinternews.com/hillary-clinto ... 1829746399
If I remember correctly, Lewinsky has long insisted that it was a consensual affair, though she has recently started to question some of the dynamic.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 15 Oct 2018, 11:03am

JennyB wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 10:45am
I have always thought that she and the rest of the dems did a number on Monica. I am glad to see that she (Monica) seems to be thriving. And it's not just because I used to get mistaken for her all the time.
When I did my Clinton/90s lecture, I told the students about the common assertion at the time from liberals that she was a golddigger and a whore, preying on a powerful man. And all those Lewinsky jokes. Just awful predatory behaviour by liberals and conservatives alike. And, despite the Al Franken example of a liberal man told by his base he has to resign, I don't doubt it'd happen again if a male liberal president got caught.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB » 15 Oct 2018, 11:14am

matedog wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 11:02am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 10:20am
Quick reminder: Hillary Clinton is a bad person.
https://splinternews.com/hillary-clinto ... 1829746399
If I remember correctly, Lewinsky has long insisted that it was a consensual affair, though she has recently started to question some of the dynamic.
I'm sure you are correct on both counts. My biggest issue was her treatment post-affair. She even said so herself - Hilary had the dems, Linda Tripp had the repubs, she had nobody.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by JennyB » 15 Oct 2018, 11:14am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 11:03am
JennyB wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 10:45am
I have always thought that she and the rest of the dems did a number on Monica. I am glad to see that she (Monica) seems to be thriving. And it's not just because I used to get mistaken for her all the time.
When I did my Clinton/90s lecture, I told the students about the common assertion at the time from liberals that she was a golddigger and a whore, preying on a powerful man. And all those Lewinsky jokes. Just awful predatory behaviour by liberals and conservatives alike. And, despite the Al Franken example of a liberal man told by his base he has to resign, I don't doubt it'd happen again if a male liberal president got caught.
Yep. Hypocrites, the lot of them.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog » 15 Oct 2018, 11:46am

JennyB wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 11:14am
matedog wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 11:02am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 10:20am
Quick reminder: Hillary Clinton is a bad person.
https://splinternews.com/hillary-clinto ... 1829746399
If I remember correctly, Lewinsky has long insisted that it was a consensual affair, though she has recently started to question some of the dynamic.
I'm sure you are correct on both counts. My biggest issue was her treatment post-affair. She even said so herself - Hilary had the dems, Linda Tripp had the repubs, she had nobody.
For sure. Have you had a chance to listen to the new season of Slow Burn?
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Silent Majority » 15 Oct 2018, 11:54am

matedog wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 11:02am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 10:20am
Quick reminder: Hillary Clinton is a bad person.
https://splinternews.com/hillary-clinto ... 1829746399
If I remember correctly, Lewinsky has long insisted that it was a consensual affair, though she has recently started to question some of the dynamic.
Consent with the most powerful man in the world is a blurry business, imo
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 15 Oct 2018, 12:18pm

Silent Majority wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 11:54am
matedog wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 11:02am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 10:20am
Quick reminder: Hillary Clinton is a bad person.
https://splinternews.com/hillary-clinto ... 1829746399
If I remember correctly, Lewinsky has long insisted that it was a consensual affair, though she has recently started to question some of the dynamic.
Consent with the most powerful man in the world is a blurry business, imo
Yeah, legally it might be consensual, but in actuality it's a lot messier. I've told the story of my brother-in-law, ex-Canadian military, being present in DC in 2001 or 2002 when Bill gave a speech to a bunch of American military officers (colonels and generals). My BIL, a conservative guy (tho not of the nutty variety), said that the room beforehand was pretty hostile to Clinton, but the moment he walked in, it all melted away. The guy has genuine and deeply affecting charisma. He had these generals—a bunch of alpha males—in his palm the entire time. Take that, the prestige of the office, and the significant age gap between BC and ML, and the consent thing becomes very qualified.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by matedog » 15 Oct 2018, 12:36pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 12:18pm
Silent Majority wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 11:54am
matedog wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 11:02am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 10:20am
Quick reminder: Hillary Clinton is a bad person.
https://splinternews.com/hillary-clinto ... 1829746399
If I remember correctly, Lewinsky has long insisted that it was a consensual affair, though she has recently started to question some of the dynamic.
Consent with the most powerful man in the world is a blurry business, imo
Yeah, legally it might be consensual, but in actuality it's a lot messier. I've told the story of my brother-in-law, ex-Canadian military, being present in DC in 2001 or 2002 when Bill gave a speech to a bunch of American military officers (colonels and generals). My BIL, a conservative guy (tho not of the nutty variety), said that the room beforehand was pretty hostile to Clinton, but the moment he walked in, it all melted away. The guy has genuine and deeply affecting charisma. He had these generals—a bunch of alpha males—in his palm the entire time. Take that, the prestige of the office, and the significant age gap between BC and ML, and the consent thing becomes very qualified.
I guess my point is that Lewinsky should be the ultimate judge of whether or not she consented. As recently as 2014 she was adamant that it was but earlier this year wrote:
Now, at 44, I’m beginning (just beginning) to consider the implications of the power differentials that were so vast between a president and a White House intern. I’m beginning to entertain the notion that in such a circumstance the idea of consent might well be rendered moot. (Although power imbalances—and the ability to abuse them—do exist even when the sex has been consensual.)

But it’s also complicated. Very, very complicated. The dictionary definition of “consent”? “To give permission for something to happen.” And yet what did the “something” mean in this instance, given the power dynamics, his position, and my age? Was the “something” just about crossing a line of sexual (and later emotional) intimacy? (An intimacy I wanted—with a 22-year-old’s limited understanding of the consequences.) He was my boss. He was the most powerful man on the planet. He was 27 years my senior, with enough life experience to know better. He was, at the time, at the pinnacle of his career, while I was in my first job out of college. (Note to the trolls, both Democratic and Republican: none of the above excuses me for my responsibility for what happened. I meet Regret every day.)

“This” (sigh) is as far as I’ve gotten in my re-evaluation; I want to be thoughtful. But I know one thing for certain: part of what has allowed me to shift is knowing I’m not alone anymore. And for that I am grateful.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 15 Oct 2018, 2:24pm

matedog wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 12:36pm
I guess my point is that Lewinsky should be the ultimate judge of whether or not she consented.
It's still a fine line because we may think we're acting autonomously and voluntarily but don't realize we're being manipulated. But you also don't want to deny her being the author of her own story. It's tough.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by 101Walterton » 15 Oct 2018, 2:32pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 2:24pm
matedog wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 12:36pm
I guess my point is that Lewinsky should be the ultimate judge of whether or not she consented.
It's still a fine line because we may think we're acting autonomously and voluntarily but don't realize we're being manipulated. But you also don't want to deny her being the author of her own story. It's tough.
I agree, that is how a Paedophile operates. I have always had the belief that someone does not stop being a ‘paedophile’ just because the victim is over the age of consent.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Silent Majority » 15 Oct 2018, 2:39pm

101Walterton wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 2:32pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 2:24pm
matedog wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 12:36pm
I guess my point is that Lewinsky should be the ultimate judge of whether or not she consented.
It's still a fine line because we may think we're acting autonomously and voluntarily but don't realize we're being manipulated. But you also don't want to deny her being the author of her own story. It's tough.
I agree, that is how a Paedophile operates. I have always had the belief that someone does not stop being a ‘paedophile’ just because the victim is over the age of consent.
I'm not sure if I'd use language quite as strong as you, but I have absolutely no sexual interest in someone 18 years old, eleven years younger than me. I find the idea kinda gross. People only start looking like grown ups to these weary eyes at about 24.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Rat Patrol » 15 Oct 2018, 2:53pm

Silent Majority wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 2:39pm
101Walterton wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 2:32pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 2:24pm
matedog wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 12:36pm
I guess my point is that Lewinsky should be the ultimate judge of whether or not she consented.
It's still a fine line because we may think we're acting autonomously and voluntarily but don't realize we're being manipulated. But you also don't want to deny her being the author of her own story. It's tough.
I agree, that is how a Paedophile operates. I have always had the belief that someone does not stop being a ‘paedophile’ just because the victim is over the age of consent.
I'm not sure if I'd use language quite as strong as you, but I have absolutely no sexual interest in someone 18 years old, eleven years younger than me. I find the idea kinda gross. People only start looking like grown ups to these weary eyes at about 24.
What's that old formula...half your age + 7 = biggest allowable age difference before the odds become improbable that it isn't a creepy Daddy/Mommy Issues situation?

Yeah...27 sounds like my lower cutoff for shared-experiences adulthood.
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by 101Walterton » 15 Oct 2018, 3:09pm

Silent Majority wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 2:39pm
101Walterton wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 2:32pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 2:24pm
matedog wrote:
15 Oct 2018, 12:36pm
I guess my point is that Lewinsky should be the ultimate judge of whether or not she consented.
It's still a fine line because we may think we're acting autonomously and voluntarily but don't realize we're being manipulated. But you also don't want to deny her being the author of her own story. It's tough.
I agree, that is how a Paedophile operates. I have always had the belief that someone does not stop being a ‘paedophile’ just because the victim is over the age of consent.
I'm not sure if I'd use language quite as strong as you, but I have absolutely no sexual interest in someone 18 years old, eleven years younger than me. I find the idea kinda gross. People only start looking like grown ups to these weary eyes at about 24.
If there was a more accurate word for predatory behaviour towards a young volnerable person I would use it however I don’t know of one.
Does real life definition of a child stop when they hit 16? Not in my book.

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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 15 Oct 2018, 3:11pm

Doesn't anyone believe in true love anymore? :geek:
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Re: No, No, Don't Worry. Sexism is Pretty Much Over.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 12 Nov 2018, 9:21am

Weird how these kinds of statements are always accidental and don't reflect what they really think.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/ucp-membe ... -1.4173053
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