Happy Fourth of July

Politics and other such topical creams.
Dr. Medulla
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Re: Happy Fourth of July

Post by Dr. Medulla » 31 Jul 2008, 10:08am

BostonBeaneater wrote:We are never far from a pogrom. I read a lot about genocide and have been watching the Radovan Karadzic story closely. He will be hanged for a crime committed by a population. The murderers and rapists will not hang. They are driving buses and working at the local shops, just like they did before the war.
So, is your position that everyone (and I'm talking beyond the Serbian situation) is guilty of violence and so everyone should be punished or that everyone is so equally guilty that no one should be punished? It's rather facile to say "everyone is violent." To say that North American Indians were violent as a means of dismissing the actions taken against them ignores context and motivation (i.e., what is the expected result when a group of people, especially one of wholly dissimilar worldviews, moves into the territory of another?). If you're going to go down that road, fuck the Holocaust—sure, Nazis were barbarians but all humans are violent; don't blame Pol Pot, all humans are violent.
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BostonBeaneater
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Re: Happy Fourth of July

Post by BostonBeaneater » 31 Jul 2008, 10:15am

eumaas wrote:Who would you turn on first?
People with beards.
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eumaas
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Re: Happy Fourth of July

Post by eumaas » 31 Jul 2008, 10:18am

BostonBeaneater wrote:
eumaas wrote:Who would you turn on first?
People with beards.
As someone who sometimes has a beard, I'd have to slaughter your mick ass.

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Re: Happy Fourth of July

Post by BostonBeaneater » 31 Jul 2008, 10:27am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
BostonBeaneater wrote:We are never far from a pogrom. I read a lot about genocide and have been watching the Radovan Karadzic story closely. He will be hanged for a crime committed by a population. The murderers and rapists will not hang. They are driving buses and working at the local shops, just like they did before the war.
So, is your position that everyone (and I'm talking beyond the Serbian situation) is guilty of violence and so everyone should be punished or that everyone is so equally guilty that no one should be punished? It's rather facile to say "everyone is violent." To say that North American Indians were violent as a means of dismissing the actions taken against them ignores context and motivation (i.e., what is the expected result when a group of people, especially one of wholly dissimilar worldviews, moves into the territory of another?). If you're going to go down that road, fuck the Holocaust—sure, Nazis were barbarians but all humans are violent; don't blame Pol Pot, all humans are violent.
I'm not looking to dole out or dismiss blame. I just think there is some darkness and violence in most people which under the right (or wrong) circumstance can manifest itself in ghastly brutality. What I'm trying to do is figure it out. What is the spark that turns a population into a murderous mob?
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Happy Fourth of July

Post by Dr. Medulla » 31 Jul 2008, 10:35am

BostonBeaneater wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
BostonBeaneater wrote:We are never far from a pogrom. I read a lot about genocide and have been watching the Radovan Karadzic story closely. He will be hanged for a crime committed by a population. The murderers and rapists will not hang. They are driving buses and working at the local shops, just like they did before the war.
So, is your position that everyone (and I'm talking beyond the Serbian situation) is guilty of violence and so everyone should be punished or that everyone is so equally guilty that no one should be punished? It's rather facile to say "everyone is violent." To say that North American Indians were violent as a means of dismissing the actions taken against them ignores context and motivation (i.e., what is the expected result when a group of people, especially one of wholly dissimilar worldviews, moves into the territory of another?). If you're going to go down that road, fuck the Holocaust—sure, Nazis were barbarians but all humans are violent; don't blame Pol Pot, all humans are violent.
I'm not looking to dole out or dismiss blame. I just think there is some darkness and violence in most people which under the right (or wrong) circumstance can manifest itself in ghastly brutality. What I'm trying to do is figure it out. What is the spark that turns a population into a murderous mob?
Insecurity. Individual insecurity translated into group insecurity that becomes predatory. The belief that someone or some group is out to fuck you over so you have to get them first. Dress it up with rationalizations and theoretical frameworks, but it all comes back to a rooted insecurity. Which isn't to say that all grievances are therefore invalid, just that when you peel away the onion skin it gets back to the same root cause.
Endut! Hoch Hech!

I feel that, had he lived, John Lennon would have loved Donkey Kong.

101Walterton
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Re: Happy Fourth of July

Post by 101Walterton » 31 Jul 2008, 10:14pm

BostonBeaneater wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
BostonBeaneater wrote:We are never far from a pogrom. I read a lot about genocide and have been watching the Radovan Karadzic story closely. He will be hanged for a crime committed by a population. The murderers and rapists will not hang. They are driving buses and working at the local shops, just like they did before the war.
So, is your position that everyone (and I'm talking beyond the Serbian situation) is guilty of violence and so everyone should be punished or that everyone is so equally guilty that no one should be punished? It's rather facile to say "everyone is violent." To say that North American Indians were violent as a means of dismissing the actions taken against them ignores context and motivation (i.e., what is the expected result when a group of people, especially one of wholly dissimilar worldviews, moves into the territory of another?). If you're going to go down that road, fuck the Holocaust—sure, Nazis were barbarians but all humans are violent; don't blame Pol Pot, all humans are violent.
I'm not looking to dole out or dismiss blame. I just think there is some darkness and violence in most people which under the right (or wrong) circumstance can manifest itself in ghastly brutality. What I'm trying to do is figure it out. What is the spark that turns a population into a murderous mob?
That would be the guy you were just talking about, Radovan Karadzic . Add to that list Hitler, Pol Pot, Amin, Mugabe etc...

classof77
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Re: Happy Fourth of July

Post by classof77 » 31 Jul 2008, 11:26pm

Yeah because the Indians were innocent, non violent people who never hurt anyone. :scared: Indians were just as violent as any group of humans. It make no sense when people call out whites for brutality as if other groups of people are less violent. They aren't. Humans throughout history, regardless of race, have been/are violent.?
So in your world view Gandhi and MLK were anomalies--and pacifists are something for ridicule and scorn; the strong take what they need because they deserve it? No wonder you're pro gun. So, Hitler is only evil because he failed?

Sure humans are violent--and Americans seemingly more so than anyone but rationalizing genocide (as with the native Americans) just perpetuates the violence. When cultures take accountability they begin to move on. When its every man for themselves its a sinking ship.

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