Fuck the State

Politics and other such topical creams.
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Re: Fuck the State

Post by Rat Patrol » 26 Sep 2014, 8:39pm

Wherin the thread title goes completely through the looking glass: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in- ... n-all-day/

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Re: Fuck the State

Post by Rat Patrol » 26 Sep 2014, 11:40pm

Wherein the looking glass passes back through itself due to relativistic effects after crossing the event horizon towards the singularity: http://cjonline.com/news/2014-09-24/sta ... tax-losses
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Re: Fuck the State

Post by Dr. Medulla » 11 Mar 2015, 1:19pm

Do any of y'all better-read anarchists know whether Jane Jacobs self-identified as an anarchist? I did a lecture yesterday on postwar urban decline and as I was talking about her criticism of urban planning and her idea of what makes a city liveable, I realized in the middle of everything that she was talking about spontaneous order. She was a clear critic of postwar liberalism, with its top-down emphasis on experts who could "fix" what all the dopey people are incapable of doing, but I wasn't aware of her larger philosophy. So, anyone know whether she was an anarchist or just accidentally fit in with that criticism?
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Re: Fuck the State

Post by Wolter » 11 Mar 2015, 1:50pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:Do any of y'all better-read anarchists know whether Jane Jacobs self-identified as an anarchist? I did a lecture yesterday on postwar urban decline and as I was talking about her criticism of urban planning and her idea of what makes a city liveable, I realized in the middle of everything that she was talking about spontaneous order. She was a clear critic of postwar liberalism, with its top-down emphasis on experts who could "fix" what all the dopey people are incapable of doing, but I wasn't aware of her larger philosophy. So, anyone know whether she was an anarchist or just accidentally fit in with that criticism?
I don't know offhand if she was an actual anarchist, but I can definitely see a sympathetic ear to it in that line of thought.
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Re: Fuck the State

Post by Dr. Medulla » 11 Mar 2015, 2:11pm

Wolter wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:Do any of y'all better-read anarchists know whether Jane Jacobs self-identified as an anarchist? I did a lecture yesterday on postwar urban decline and as I was talking about her criticism of urban planning and her idea of what makes a city liveable, I realized in the middle of everything that she was talking about spontaneous order. She was a clear critic of postwar liberalism, with its top-down emphasis on experts who could "fix" what all the dopey people are incapable of doing, but I wasn't aware of her larger philosophy. So, anyone know whether she was an anarchist or just accidentally fit in with that criticism?
I don't know offhand if she was an actual anarchist, but I can definitely see a sympathetic ear to it in that line of thought.
Yeah, exactly. I'd like to be able to tell my class that she was an anarchist (if she was) if for no other reason than to fuck with the people who thought she made a lot of sense (the students are, by and large, rather conservative).
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Re: Fuck the State

Post by Wolter » 11 Mar 2015, 2:20pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
Wolter wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:Do any of y'all better-read anarchists know whether Jane Jacobs self-identified as an anarchist? I did a lecture yesterday on postwar urban decline and as I was talking about her criticism of urban planning and her idea of what makes a city liveable, I realized in the middle of everything that she was talking about spontaneous order. She was a clear critic of postwar liberalism, with its top-down emphasis on experts who could "fix" what all the dopey people are incapable of doing, but I wasn't aware of her larger philosophy. So, anyone know whether she was an anarchist or just accidentally fit in with that criticism?
I don't know offhand if she was an actual anarchist, but I can definitely see a sympathetic ear to it in that line of thought.
Yeah, exactly. I'd like to be able to tell my class that she was an anarchist (if she was) if for no other reason than to fuck with the people who thought she made a lot of sense (the students are, by and large, rather conservative).
It's funny how useless the conservative/liberal split becomes when one starts looking at far "left" anarchists and far-"right" libertarians.
"There's something more honest, he believed, about traditional methods of mass starvation, labour camps, and machine gunning millions to death. Stalin was a vinyl guy who sneered at Truman converting everything to compact disc." - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Fuck the State

Post by Dr. Medulla » 11 Mar 2015, 3:08pm

Wolter wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
Wolter wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:Do any of y'all better-read anarchists know whether Jane Jacobs self-identified as an anarchist? I did a lecture yesterday on postwar urban decline and as I was talking about her criticism of urban planning and her idea of what makes a city liveable, I realized in the middle of everything that she was talking about spontaneous order. She was a clear critic of postwar liberalism, with its top-down emphasis on experts who could "fix" what all the dopey people are incapable of doing, but I wasn't aware of her larger philosophy. So, anyone know whether she was an anarchist or just accidentally fit in with that criticism?
I don't know offhand if she was an actual anarchist, but I can definitely see a sympathetic ear to it in that line of thought.
Yeah, exactly. I'd like to be able to tell my class that she was an anarchist (if she was) if for no other reason than to fuck with the people who thought she made a lot of sense (the students are, by and large, rather conservative).
It's funny how useless the conservative/liberal split becomes when one starts looking at far "left" anarchists and far-"right" libertarians.
The model of two-dimensional spectrum politics is rarely illuminating. One of those many things that are geared to inhibit critical thought and debate by pigeon-holing people and, fundamentally, making them hate politics because it turns everything into an either/or proposition.
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Re: Fuck the State

Post by Wolter » 11 Mar 2015, 4:18pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
Wolter wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
Wolter wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:Do any of y'all better-read anarchists know whether Jane Jacobs self-identified as an anarchist? I did a lecture yesterday on postwar urban decline and as I was talking about her criticism of urban planning and her idea of what makes a city liveable, I realized in the middle of everything that she was talking about spontaneous order. She was a clear critic of postwar liberalism, with its top-down emphasis on experts who could "fix" what all the dopey people are incapable of doing, but I wasn't aware of her larger philosophy. So, anyone know whether she was an anarchist or just accidentally fit in with that criticism?
I don't know offhand if she was an actual anarchist, but I can definitely see a sympathetic ear to it in that line of thought.
Yeah, exactly. I'd like to be able to tell my class that she was an anarchist (if she was) if for no other reason than to fuck with the people who thought she made a lot of sense (the students are, by and large, rather conservative).
It's funny how useless the conservative/liberal split becomes when one starts looking at far "left" anarchists and far-"right" libertarians.
The model of two-dimensional spectrum politics is rarely illuminating. One of those many things that are geared to inhibit critical thought and debate by pigeon-holing people and, fundamentally, making them hate politics because it turns everything into an either/or proposition.
Yep. Non-authoritarian politics do not fit properly on the spectrum as is usually imagined, because old school conservative thinking is strongly pro-authority (hence the "fiercely individualist" Republicans being pro-military and police spending), and the traditional American idea of liberalism meaning "government providing necessary services."
"There's something more honest, he believed, about traditional methods of mass starvation, labour camps, and machine gunning millions to death. Stalin was a vinyl guy who sneered at Truman converting everything to compact disc." - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Fuck the State

Post by Flex » 11 Mar 2015, 5:02pm

She's been called an anarchist, I'm not actually sure I've ever seen her self-identify as such though.
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Re: Fuck the State

Post by Dr. Medulla » 11 Mar 2015, 5:25pm

Flex wrote:She's been called an anarchist, I'm not actually sure I've ever seen her self-identify as such though.
Yeah, the little bits I was able to locate suggested that critics labelled her one, but that seemed to me like an effort to dismiss her, not understand the basis of her views.
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Re: Fuck the State

Post by Dr. Medulla » 12 Apr 2017, 6:55am

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lo ... -1.4059207

This struck me as further to the notion of spontaneous order. More precisely, that experiment in Holland where accidents at a dangerous intersection decreased by removing stop signs and speed limits, forcing people to regulate their own behaviour.
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Re: Fuck the State

Post by Silent Majority » 12 Apr 2017, 7:50am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Apr 2017, 6:55am
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lo ... -1.4059207

This struck me as further to the notion of spontaneous order. More precisely, that experiment in Holland where accidents at a dangerous intersection decreased by removing stop signs and speed limits, forcing people to regulate their own behaviour.
This is a dumb connection, but I just watched the episode of King of the Hill where Arlen banned trans fats and Bill immediately took to eating everything in sight that wasn't banned, happy in the knowledge that he was following the rules and that govt would protect him. Of course, he became morbidly obese.
'But also: hey dude, you can just go looking for more glasses. They're all free now. '

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Re: Fuck the State

Post by Dr. Medulla » 12 Apr 2017, 8:17am

Silent Majority wrote:
12 Apr 2017, 7:50am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Apr 2017, 6:55am
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lo ... -1.4059207

This struck me as further to the notion of spontaneous order. More precisely, that experiment in Holland where accidents at a dangerous intersection decreased by removing stop signs and speed limits, forcing people to regulate their own behaviour.
This is a dumb connection, but I just watched the episode of King of the Hill where Arlen banned trans fats and Bill immediately took to eating everything in sight that wasn't banned, happy in the knowledge that he was following the rules and that govt would protect him. Of course, he became morbidly obese.
Reflecting Mike Judge's libertarian position of being both anti-government yet thinking the average person is a complete moron (see Idiocracy). Which suggests that, at least in practice, libertarianism is the playground of elitists, whatever their contrary rhetoric.
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Re: Fuck the State

Post by eumaas » 12 Apr 2017, 8:55am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Apr 2017, 6:55am
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lo ... -1.4059207

This struck me as further to the notion of spontaneous order. More precisely, that experiment in Holland where accidents at a dangerous intersection decreased by removing stop signs and speed limits, forcing people to regulate their own behaviour.
Spontaneous order is a pretty powerful tool for understanding how societies actually get along, whatever their mode of production or government system. I think it's an undervalued contribution to theory and something that Marxists haven't been as good at understanding.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: Fuck the State

Post by Dr. Medulla » 12 Apr 2017, 11:53am

eumaas wrote:
12 Apr 2017, 8:55am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Apr 2017, 6:55am
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lo ... -1.4059207

This struck me as further to the notion of spontaneous order. More precisely, that experiment in Holland where accidents at a dangerous intersection decreased by removing stop signs and speed limits, forcing people to regulate their own behaviour.
Spontaneous order is a pretty powerful tool for understanding how societies actually get along, whatever their mode of production or government system. I think it's an undervalued contribution to theory and something that Marxists haven't been as good at understanding.
The notion that, left to our own devices, we'd suddenly become treacherous, murderous monsters is a curious original sin position. The classic modern liberal expression of it was Arthur Schlesinger, Jr's claim that within each person's breast is a Hitler or a Stalin that must be restrained. If one wants to go Freudian, it's an interesting admission of what a person would apparently like to do if not for those pesky laws.
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