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Re: The Gun Politics Thread

Posted: 04 Oct 2017, 12:50pm
by Spiff
Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Oct 2017, 10:33am
Spiff wrote:
04 Oct 2017, 9:54am
I don't think sociopath implies active, predatory harm, just a "me-before-anyone-else" attitude taken to the extreme, i.e., regardless of the negative consequences to others.
What's the difference between a sociopath and a run-of-the-mill selfish person? I think we need to distinguish between a kind of ugly disinterest and maliciousness. Believing "I don't care if you get shot" is distinct from "I hope you get shot" or "I want you to get shot." I'm appalled by the former, I'm scared of the latter.
I think the difference is bolded, above.

Re: The Gun Politics Thread

Posted: 04 Oct 2017, 1:19pm
by Dr. Medulla
Spiff wrote:
04 Oct 2017, 12:50pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
04 Oct 2017, 10:33am
Spiff wrote:
04 Oct 2017, 9:54am
I don't think sociopath implies active, predatory harm, just a "me-before-anyone-else" attitude taken to the extreme, i.e., regardless of the negative consequences to others.
What's the difference between a sociopath and a run-of-the-mill selfish person? I think we need to distinguish between a kind of ugly disinterest and maliciousness. Believing "I don't care if you get shot" is distinct from "I hope you get shot" or "I want you to get shot." I'm appalled by the former, I'm scared of the latter.
I think the difference is bolded, above.
Right, but in practice what is that extreme?

Re: The Gun Politics Thread

Posted: 04 Oct 2017, 1:26pm
by Dr. Medulla
eumaas wrote:
04 Oct 2017, 12:25pm
I'm ambivalent about gun control. I would welcome the reduction in mass shootings that disarmament would presumably bring, but I also think that the police need to be disarmed and demilitarized if we are going to disarm the public, and yet there is little call among mainstream proponents of gun control to do just that. In any case, without a constitutional amendment, and with the USA being a huge arms manufacturer and dealer, it seems like we have a lot of institutional impediments to disarmament.

There's also the problem now of a highly armed, violent far right movement who have infiltrated the police, on top of police being largely sympathetic to their fascist aims. Should underprivileged communities and anti-fascist activists arm as a deterrent to neo-fascist attacks? I am largely pacifist in that I think political violence is usually not the answer, particularly in the Western democracies, but I do support self-defense, and after Charlottesville I can't blame those on the left who desire a deterrent.

I don't think people should arm in expectation of insurrection and revolution, however. In that kind of situation the military would be involved, and while a heavily armed populace might be able to turn it into a quagmire, victory seems unlikely. I don't think people's war or foquismo is all that practical with the USA having such a massive military. In the end it's more about convincing soldiers not to show up for duty or to disobey orders (which is more or less what happened in the October revolution, right?).

If there were a movement for popular disarmament, I would support it, but I would argue such a movement would need to be radicalized to 1. support the disarmament and demilitarization of the police and 2. institute severe regulations on weapons manufacture and sales. Think of all the bombs and guns sold to Saudi Arabia by Obama/Clinton and now Trump to slaughter the Yemenis. The massacres at home and abroad must be linked, and police violence must be understood in the same terms. While I have my doubts about the right-wing theory of guns as a check on tyranny (given the rightists actively support tyranny), I don't think leaving the police unreformed while totally disarming the public would be a good idea given how fascistic they have become.

I wrote this on my phone so if there are lots of typos, forgive me.
I fundamentally agree with you here. Legal solutions can only limit the problem so far. It does require a cultural change, whereby people actively reject the idea of a militarized civil sphere, be it of civilians or the police, and a rejection of profiting from arms sales, domestically and internationally. Don't ask me how to accomplish all this—I remain pessimistic about it all and my brain has never been good for conceiving practical solutions—but for now my hope is that Millennials and the generation that follows, having been raised in this environment of numbing mass slaughter and lockdown drills in school, will seek to create a society for their own children that is less fear based. Americans and their government weren't always so driven by fear and paranoia and acquiescent to paramilitary policing, so, in theory, it must be possible to alter conditions whereby these norms are reversed.

Re: The Gun Politics Thread

Posted: 12 Oct 2017, 8:39pm
by revbob
Image

Re: The Gun Politics Thread

Posted: 12 Oct 2017, 8:47pm
by Dr. Medulla
revbob wrote:
12 Oct 2017, 8:39pm
Image
Only one? No, a true patriot who is in no way terrified of the world—especially of those dark-skinned people who are just watching you in that way they do, right?—needs at least 20 of those bad boys.

Re: The Gun Politics Thread

Posted: 06 Nov 2017, 12:05am
by BostonBeaneater
And that's why I avoid church.

Re: The Gun Politics Thread

Posted: 06 Nov 2017, 1:02am
by 101Walterton
And why it will happen again and again.

Re: The Gun Politics Thread

Posted: 06 Nov 2017, 1:04am
by 101Walterton
307 mass shootings in 309 days so far in 2017.

Re: The Gun Politics Thread

Posted: 06 Nov 2017, 7:21am
by Dr. Medulla
Never ever forget, whatever the lazy thoughts and prayers responses, to those who want loose(r) gun laws, every death, every ruined life, is an acceptable cost. Every dead kid, every orphan, ever widow and widower—that's all worth it to maintain conditions where they can buy and sell more and more firearms. That it doesn't prey upon their conscience—else they'd consider that the social consequences of these laws are unacceptable—tells you everything you need to know about their morality.

Re: The Gun Politics Thread

Posted: 06 Nov 2017, 10:26am
by WestwayKid
Dr. Medulla wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 7:21am
Never ever forget, whatever the lazy thoughts and prayers responses, to those who want loose(r) gun laws, every death, every ruined life, is an acceptable cost. Every dead kid, every orphan, ever widow and widower—that's all worth it to maintain conditions where they can buy and sell more and more firearms. That it doesn't prey upon their conscience—else they'd consider that the social consequences of these laws are unacceptable—tells you everything you need to know about their morality.
Exactly and very well stated. I keep thinking something will shake these people awake or that the tide of public opinion will grow to the point that it overwhelms the gun fetishists...but nothing ever changes. Thoughts and prayers. Great. I wonder when "thoughts and prayers" are going to stop mass shootings...

Re: The Gun Politics Thread

Posted: 06 Nov 2017, 11:55am
by JennyB
Dr. Medulla wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 7:21am
Never ever forget, whatever the lazy thoughts and prayers responses, to those who want loose(r) gun laws, every death, every ruined life, is an acceptable cost. Every dead kid, every orphan, ever widow and widower—that's all worth it to maintain conditions where they can buy and sell more and more firearms. That it doesn't prey upon their conscience—else they'd consider that the social consequences of these laws are unacceptable—tells you everything you need to know about their morality.
My idiot cousin, who tries (in vain) to sound intelligent on Facebook, thinks that any sort of gun violence prevention measures wouldn't work in small town America because, and I quote, "they may only have one sheriff." Or something like that. I have no idea what he's talking about. He also always likes my music posts. Whenever he does this, my inner 9th grade year zero demon comes out and I have to restrain myself from asking him, "So, without googling, name two X ray Spex songs."

I HATE MY COUSIN.

Re: The Gun Politics Thread

Posted: 06 Nov 2017, 12:53pm
by Dr. Medulla
JennyB wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 11:55am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 7:21am
Never ever forget, whatever the lazy thoughts and prayers responses, to those who want loose(r) gun laws, every death, every ruined life, is an acceptable cost. Every dead kid, every orphan, ever widow and widower—that's all worth it to maintain conditions where they can buy and sell more and more firearms. That it doesn't prey upon their conscience—else they'd consider that the social consequences of these laws are unacceptable—tells you everything you need to know about their morality.
My idiot cousin, who tries (in vain) to sound intelligent on Facebook, thinks that any sort of gun violence prevention measures wouldn't work in small town America because, and I quote, "they may only have one sheriff." Or something like that. I have no idea what he's talking about.
Americans need lots of guns because other Americans have guns and the first set of Americans need guns to protect themselves from the second group of Americans because police Americans don't have enough guns to protect the first set of Americans if the first set of Americans don't have gun to protect themselves from the second set of Americans with guns!

Re: The Gun Politics Thread

Posted: 06 Nov 2017, 12:57pm
by JennyB
Dr. Medulla wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 12:53pm
JennyB wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 11:55am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 7:21am
Never ever forget, whatever the lazy thoughts and prayers responses, to those who want loose(r) gun laws, every death, every ruined life, is an acceptable cost. Every dead kid, every orphan, ever widow and widower—that's all worth it to maintain conditions where they can buy and sell more and more firearms. That it doesn't prey upon their conscience—else they'd consider that the social consequences of these laws are unacceptable—tells you everything you need to know about their morality.
My idiot cousin, who tries (in vain) to sound intelligent on Facebook, thinks that any sort of gun violence prevention measures wouldn't work in small town America because, and I quote, "they may only have one sheriff." Or something like that. I have no idea what he's talking about.
Americans need lots of guns because other Americans have guns and the first set of Americans need guns to protect themselves from the second group of Americans because police Americans don't have enough guns to protect the first set of Americans if the first set of Americans don't have gun to protect themselves from the second set of Americans with guns!
Guns.

Re: The Gun Politics Thread

Posted: 06 Nov 2017, 1:04pm
by Mimi
JennyB wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 12:57pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 12:53pm
JennyB wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 11:55am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 7:21am
Never ever forget, whatever the lazy thoughts and prayers responses, to those who want loose(r) gun laws, every death, every ruined life, is an acceptable cost. Every dead kid, every orphan, ever widow and widower—that's all worth it to maintain conditions where they can buy and sell more and more firearms. That it doesn't prey upon their conscience—else they'd consider that the social consequences of these laws are unacceptable—tells you everything you need to know about their morality.
My idiot cousin, who tries (in vain) to sound intelligent on Facebook, thinks that any sort of gun violence prevention measures wouldn't work in small town America because, and I quote, "they may only have one sheriff." Or something like that. I have no idea what he's talking about.
Americans need lots of guns because other Americans have guns and the first set of Americans need guns to protect themselves from the second group of Americans because police Americans don't have enough guns to protect the first set of Americans if the first set of Americans don't have gun to protect themselves from the second set of Americans with guns!
Guns.
...on the roof.

Re: The Gun Politics Thread

Posted: 06 Nov 2017, 1:25pm
by JennyB
Mimi wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 1:04pm
JennyB wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 12:57pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 12:53pm
JennyB wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 11:55am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 7:21am
Never ever forget, whatever the lazy thoughts and prayers responses, to those who want loose(r) gun laws, every death, every ruined life, is an acceptable cost. Every dead kid, every orphan, ever widow and widower—that's all worth it to maintain conditions where they can buy and sell more and more firearms. That it doesn't prey upon their conscience—else they'd consider that the social consequences of these laws are unacceptable—tells you everything you need to know about their morality.
My idiot cousin, who tries (in vain) to sound intelligent on Facebook, thinks that any sort of gun violence prevention measures wouldn't work in small town America because, and I quote, "they may only have one sheriff." Or something like that. I have no idea what he's talking about.
Americans need lots of guns because other Americans have guns and the first set of Americans need guns to protect themselves from the second group of Americans because police Americans don't have enough guns to protect the first set of Americans if the first set of Americans don't have gun to protect themselves from the second set of Americans with guns!
Guns.
...on the roof.
...of Brixton.