Nothing will be done until we elect a congress that is not beholden to the NRA, which is a terrorist organization. Full stop. If nothing was done after 20 first graders were massacred, nothing will be done about this.Mimi wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 9:02amWord.WestwayKid wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 8:20amMy mom is a recently retired teacher and she told me last night about how they practiced taking kids into a dark room (she taught at the high school level) and barricading the door until the fire alarm was sounded - at which time it meant it was safe to evacuate the building and assemble in the parking lot. It sounds like the shooter knew this drill (which is probably common across many schools) and used it. It wouldn't have mattered if teachers were armed - they were still essentially sitting ducks. I'm just so very tired of thoughts and prayers and hashtags and people changing temporarily changing their Facebook profile photo to stand with the victims. Enough is enough. Fix it. Nothing else needs to be said or done. Just. Fix. It.
The Gun Politics Thread
Re: The Gun Politics Thread
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Re: The Gun Politics Thread
So, a school that had an armed guard; a shooter who was part of a white nationalist militia; a gun that was legally purchased. Where does the right go to explain this away? $100 says "the world is a dangerous place and this is the price of freedom."
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Re: The Gun Politics Thread
Oh, the blaming of the victims has already started. Sentiments like "Why didn't they report his suspicious behavior sooner?" (they did) and "Why are these dagnabbit kids recording what's going on on their newfangled cellphones instead of calling 911?" are being tossed around frequently. (Just to add, one of the kids at the school tweeted thart 911 told them to stop calling - it was being taken care of).Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 2:46pmSo, a school that had an armed guard; a shooter who was part of a white nationalist militia; a gun that was legally purchased. Where does the right go to explain this away? $100 says "the world is a dangerous place and this is the price of freedom."
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Re: The Gun Politics Thread
God bless the USA!JennyB wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 3:01pmOh, the blaming of the victims has already started. Sentiments like "Why didn't they report his suspicious behavior sooner?" (they did) and "Why are these dagnabbit kids recording what's going on on their newfangled cellphones instead of calling 911?" are being tossed around frequently. (Just to add, one of the kids at the school tweeted thart 911 told them to stop calling - it was being taken care of).Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 2:46pmSo, a school that had an armed guard; a shooter who was part of a white nationalist militia; a gun that was legally purchased. Where does the right go to explain this away? $100 says "the world is a dangerous place and this is the price of freedom."
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Re: The Gun Politics Thread
I'm mildly curious what the "it's a mental health issue, not a guns issue" contingent really imagine happening if they're being sincere about their position (which, obviously, they are not). So, this kid (apparently) was getting treatment until recently. There were "warning signs", including alarming social media posts, but nothing obviously criminal that he was doing. So... what do we do in this situation? Force law-abiding citizens to report for medical treatment even if they don't want to? Expand the ability of the state to involuntarily commit people? How do you even track who should be forced into care without a massive expansion of state surveillance powers? You don't and you can't.
So, in order to use "mental health" as an answer - rather than gun control - to these shootings you would need a massive, probably unprecedented, expansion of state power to broadly and deeply monitor the activities of everyone, including - probably especially including - citizens who are otherwise completely free of a criminal background. And you have to greatly broaden the ability of the state to involuntarily commit people. Like, on the basis of some sketchy Instagram posts. All of this strikes me as a significantly greater intrusion on the personal liberty of an American citizen than gun restriction (or, indeed, even gun confiscation).
I absolutely believe in the need to expand mental health treatments, but that kind of expansion isn't really a solution to these sorts of situations, at least not in the way gun control obviously would be.
So, in order to use "mental health" as an answer - rather than gun control - to these shootings you would need a massive, probably unprecedented, expansion of state power to broadly and deeply monitor the activities of everyone, including - probably especially including - citizens who are otherwise completely free of a criminal background. And you have to greatly broaden the ability of the state to involuntarily commit people. Like, on the basis of some sketchy Instagram posts. All of this strikes me as a significantly greater intrusion on the personal liberty of an American citizen than gun restriction (or, indeed, even gun confiscation).
I absolutely believe in the need to expand mental health treatments, but that kind of expansion isn't really a solution to these sorts of situations, at least not in the way gun control obviously would be.
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Re: The Gun Politics Thread
Right. The gun rights side frames it in a libertarian angle, often with a dose of big government concern/paranoia. It's selective application of principles to elevate right to arms but compromise right to privacy. And, frankly, it's not a stretch to see some kind of involuntary commitment power by the state to be abused against political dissent.
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Re: The Gun Politics Thread
Yeah, exactly. Let's say these warped, deranged gun-fuckers at the NRA and whatnot get their way and we institute a "mental health police state" or whatever it is they want (with a healthy dose of making sure teachers and children are all armed 24/7 for self-defense reasons, naturally). You think the local constabulary in the Florida panhandle is going to be going after psychos posting about how the coming race war on Fox News facebook pages? Or are they going to be infiltrating black bloc efforts and committing left wing activists? If you think it's the former, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that can be yours for whatever you have in cash.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 5:51pmRight. The gun rights side frames it in a libertarian angle, often with a dose of big government concern/paranoia. It's selective application of principles to elevate right to arms but compromise right to privacy. And, frankly, it's not a stretch to see some kind of involuntary commitment power by the state to be abused against political dissent.
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Re: The Gun Politics Thread
It's now roughly two decades since Columbine, which stands as a cultural watershed in the US regarding school shootings. My hope for your country is that all the kids—Millennials and whatever we can those born since 2000—who experienced a childhood that incorporated training for being mowed down by a lunatic while at school will emerge as political leaders determined that their kids shouldn't have to experience the same madness. Generational theory as proposed by Strauss and Howe asserts that generations seek to (over-)correct what they found lacking in the own childhood—too little freedom or too little protection? too secular or too religious?—so my hope is that there is a determined cultural shift, with accompanying legislation, to demilitarize the civil sphere. If same sex marriage can happen, maybe a sufficient cultural revolution can happen with guns. Not that I'm all pollyanna-ish about it, but I gotta choose hope.
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Re: The Gun Politics Thread
Seeing on the news tonight a local hs kid was arrested for allegedly plotting a school shooting.
http://www.wcax.com/content/news/Vt-te ... 3573.html
http://www.wcax.com/content/news/Vt-te ... 3573.html
Re: The Gun Politics Thread
If the tweets by the kids from the school in Florida are any indication, there is a lot to be hopeful about.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 7:55pmIt's now roughly two decades since Columbine, which stands as a cultural watershed in the US regarding school shootings. My hope for your country is that all the kids—Millennials and whatever we can those born since 2000—who experienced a childhood that incorporated training for being mowed down by a lunatic while at school will emerge as political leaders determined that their kids shouldn't have to experience the same madness. Generational theory as proposed by Strauss and Howe asserts that generations seek to (over-)correct what they found lacking in the own childhood—too little freedom or too little protection? too secular or too religious?—so my hope is that there is a determined cultural shift, with accompanying legislation, to demilitarize the civil sphere. If same sex marriage can happen, maybe a sufficient cultural revolution can happen with guns. Not that I'm all pollyanna-ish about it, but I gotta choose hope.
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Re: The Gun Politics Thread
Great post and I hope you are right.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 7:55pmIt's now roughly two decades since Columbine, which stands as a cultural watershed in the US regarding school shootings. My hope for your country is that all the kids—Millennials and whatever we can those born since 2000—who experienced a childhood that incorporated training for being mowed down by a lunatic while at school will emerge as political leaders determined that their kids shouldn't have to experience the same madness. Generational theory as proposed by Strauss and Howe asserts that generations seek to (over-)correct what they found lacking in the own childhood—too little freedom or too little protection? too secular or too religious?—so my hope is that there is a determined cultural shift, with accompanying legislation, to demilitarize the civil sphere. If same sex marriage can happen, maybe a sufficient cultural revolution can happen with guns. Not that I'm all pollyanna-ish about it, but I gotta choose hope.
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Re: The Gun Politics Thread
https://thinkprogress.org/the-new-smear ... d722c/amp/
Inevitability comes a-knockin' …
Inevitability comes a-knockin' …
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Re: The Gun Politics Thread
Good gawd.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑20 Feb 2018, 10:13amhttps://thinkprogress.org/the-new-smear ... d722c/amp/
Inevitability comes a-knockin' …
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Re: The Gun Politics Thread
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Re: The Gun Politics Thread
God damn this was entertaining:
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.