Canadian politics gets innerestin'

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eumaas
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Re: Canadian politics gets innerestin'

Post by eumaas » 01 Dec 2008, 4:29pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
Wolter wrote:[nibbles on Fig Newton excitedly]
Get momma another beer and do a little dance for us, Pancho.
You want to make another baby?
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Re: Canadian politics gets innerestin'

Post by Dr. Medulla » 01 Dec 2008, 4:33pm

eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
Wolter wrote:[nibbles on Fig Newton excitedly]
Get momma another beer and do a little dance for us, Pancho.
You want to make another baby?
You gonna play the Glen Campbell 8-track while I fill the waterbed?


(BTW, apparently it ain't Ignatieff to be PM, but exiting Liberal leader Stephane Dion. I suppose it provides the party leader wannabes some cover if the coalition tanks. I really liked Dion—almost voted Liberal for the first time in my life—so give him a short turn in the big chair.)
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Re: Canadian politics gets innerestin'

Post by Wolter » 01 Dec 2008, 4:38pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:so give him a short turn in the big chair.
I hope there is a literal "Big Chair" that the PM sits in. Like Edith Ann.

Image

Because it adds to the whimsy that I imagine occurs at "Canadian Parliament."
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Re: Canadian politics gets innerestin'

Post by Dr. Medulla » 01 Dec 2008, 4:43pm

Wolter wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:so give him a short turn in the big chair.
I hope there is a literal "Big Chair" that the PM sits in. Like Edith Ann.

Image

Because it adds to the whimsy that I imagine occurs at "Canadian Parliament."
http://clashcity.com/boards/viewtopic.p ... d=a#p46243
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Re: Canadian politics gets innerestin'

Post by Schnix » 01 Dec 2008, 8:56pm

Going by the CBC readers' comments and posts, the "majority" want another election! :rolleyes:

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Re: Canadian politics gets innerestin'

Post by Dr. Medulla » 01 Dec 2008, 9:06pm

Schnix wrote:Going by the CBC readers' comments and posts, the "majority" want another election! :rolleyes:
A disproportionate number of reader comments on the various news sites are either pro-Harper (coming from a position that they don't really understand how parliamentary democracies work) or want another election. Sad to see how politically illiterate people are of their own nation's system of governance.

The other thing that people have complained about is how partisan and antagonistic recent parliaments have been. Well, a set-up where two parties are a formal coalition and supported by a third would necessarily blunt some of that antagonism—three parties serving three constituencies each engaging in give-and-take to find some consensus. How is that not a good thing (if people want less needless bickering)?

Last thing (part of a my "I can only dream" scenario): this coalition leads to electoral reform whereby Canada moves to proportional representation. It'd pretty much ensure permanent minority govts and coalitions, but that's a good thing to me. The more insecure a govt is, the less contempt it holds for the electorate.
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Re: Canadian politics gets innerestin'

Post by Schnix » 01 Dec 2008, 9:23pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:Last thing (part of a my "I can only dream" scenario): this coalition leads to electoral reform whereby Canada moves to proportional representation. It'd pretty much ensure permanent minority govts and coalitions, but that's a good thing to me. The more insecure a govt is, the less contempt it holds for the electorate.
That's the ideal solution to this whole scenario. Although, the chance of the electorate going for it is as high as their knowledge of parliamentary politics. They failed miserably in explaining the mixed-proportional representation, and look how that turned out.

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Re: Canadian politics gets innerestin'

Post by Dr. Medulla » 01 Dec 2008, 9:53pm

Schnix wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:Last thing (part of a my "I can only dream" scenario): this coalition leads to electoral reform whereby Canada moves to proportional representation. It'd pretty much ensure permanent minority govts and coalitions, but that's a good thing to me. The more insecure a govt is, the less contempt it holds for the electorate.
That's the ideal solution to this whole scenario. Although, the chance of the electorate going for it is as high as their knowledge of parliamentary politics. They failed miserably in explaining the mixed-proportional representation, and look how that turned out.
You're talking about the B.C. referendum? I can't help but think that that was deliberately sabotaged, making it more complicated than necessary and unpalatable, thereby turning off the voters. Fuck, we would have so much more accountable government, and presumably better public policy, if no party ever held more than 40% of the seats and coalitions became an accepted norm. This expectation and desire for four-year dictatorships is perverse.
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Re: Canadian politics gets innerestin'

Post by Schnix » 01 Dec 2008, 11:12pm

We had one in Ontario too, if I'm not mistaken, and yes they made it seem like a complicated mess only a poli-sci major can understand (including, I wish I was kidding, a few references to "that was the system that got Hitler elected!"). :disshame:

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Re: Canadian politics gets innerestin'

Post by arsebundren77 » 01 Dec 2008, 11:46pm

Schnix wrote:Going by the CBC readers' comments and posts, the "majority" want another election! :rolleyes:
I love the Mother Corp as much as the next guy, but I try to avoid readers' comments on cbc.ca like they were Youtube comments.

So yeah, the press seems to have reached a consensus that the government will fall and the only question is when. My favorite part of all this is listening to Tory voters bitch and complain about how wrong the whole thing is, which is both unsurprising and really not worth arguing about because, as far as I can tell, being completely ignorant of the actual workings of the government seems to be a prerequisite to being a part of that crowd.

Partisanship aside, though, the whole thing is a bit ridiculous but it's squarely Stephen Harper's fault for behaving like, well, Stephen Harper.

Oh, and as far as Ottawa goes, I've never been more consistently condescended to in my life than I was during my single month of Ottawa residence. Sure, some of the buildings are nice and it's vaguely exciting to be in the capital when you're into politics, but the sheer degree of uptight, ignorant assholery I encountered sort of wore the sheen off in a hurry. But maybe I was just in a bad place. You know, mentally speaking. :rolleyes:

Honestly, though, it was probably just my accent. Montreal, on the other hand, is amazing in every possible way.

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Re: Canadian politics gets innerestin'

Post by Dr. Medulla » 02 Dec 2008, 10:16am

arsebundren77 wrote:Oh, and as far as Ottawa goes, I've never been more consistently condescended to in my life than I was during my single month of Ottawa residence. Sure, some of the buildings are nice and it's vaguely exciting to be in the capital when you're into politics, but the sheer degree of uptight, ignorant assholery I encountered sort of wore the sheen off in a hurry. But maybe I was just in a bad place. You know, mentally speaking. :rolleyes:
My nephew worked in Otterwa for a year (maybe two?) as a computer company (he's an engineer). When he decided to move back to Saskatchewan—weirdly enough, he and his wife live a block and a half away from me—because he received a much better offer, his co-workers were baffled. As in, "Why would you leave Ottawa for Saskatoon?" Completely unfathomable. Likewise, a friend of mine originally from Vancouver still gets hassled by his old friends for wanting to stay here. "Why don't you want to move back to the real world?" He replies: "Because I was able to afford to buy a house here and would have no fucking chance of ever doing that in Vancouver." So, yeah, I can't disagree with you about the snobbishness angle.

Listening to CBC radio this morning, they did a story about Albertan reactions and I almost did a spit take. Yahoos phoning in were going on about how they no longer had representation in government and that their votes have been nullified. Jesus fucking Christ, how did we get to the point where people don't know how their political system works. You vote for an MP. That's it. Do you still have an MP? Alright, you still have representation.

And absolutely no concession from the right that this is 100% Harper's own making. He could have gotten away with his mini-budget with no stimulus—the Liberals and NDP would have carped about it, but they wouldn't have done anything. But he had to try to castrate them by killing the election subsidy, basically putting them in a corner. With nothing to lose, they united along with the Bloc. Never would have happened without that asshole move. I'm really curious about the amount of dissent within the Tory caucus because I can't believe that a significant number don't see their inevitable downfall as a direct result of Harper's arrogance. I recently finished Rick Perlstein's Nixonland, about American political culture, '64-'72, and how Nixon fostered the tactics and divisions that have marked the American scene since (good argument, horribly written). And it's dawned on me that Harper is our Nixon. Two extremely smart guys who stand out largely because the right has been sending up morons for the past thirty years; two guys who, at heart, don't like people—don't do small talk well, look uncomfortable in their own skin, don't trust The People; and two guys whose downfall is due to dumb political stunts that were wholly unnecessary but an inevitable result of the previous point. Their political enemies didn't take them down until Nixon and Harper handed them the knife. So maybe there's something to be said against smart guys in leadership positions.
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Re: Canadian politics gets innerestin'

Post by dpwolf » 02 Dec 2008, 12:48pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:how did we get to the point where people don't know how their political system works
:hmm: because we don't really teach it in school ?
then don't go killing all the bees

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Re: Canadian politics gets innerestin'

Post by Dr. Medulla » 02 Dec 2008, 1:03pm

dpwolf wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:how did we get to the point where people don't know how their political system works
:hmm: because we don't really teach it in school ?
The sobering voice of truth makes me said. I'm glad that I don't have kids because I'm sure I'd be in a persistent state of fury re. what kids learn. I have a couple friends who are teachers and the stuff they tell me angers up my blood. Now, I don't know how much practical value this has, but this was a fuck of a disciplined chore I had to do in grade four, I believe (around age 10): We had to identify all fifty US states on an unmarked map (apart from state lines) plus all their capitals. And a kid had to retake the test until s/he got 100%. Same thing will Canada's provinces and a map of Central America. Really not much more than rote memorization, I suppose, but really quite demanding. (Back then, when I had a memory, I got 'em all on the first try.)
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Re: Canadian politics gets innerestin'

Post by dpwolf » 02 Dec 2008, 1:17pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
dpwolf wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:how did we get to the point where people don't know how their political system works
:hmm: because we don't really teach it in school ?
The sobering voice of truth makes me said. I'm glad that I don't have kids because I'm sure I'd be in a persistent state of fury re. what kids learn. I have a couple friends who are teachers and the stuff they tell me angers up my blood. Now, I don't know how much practical value this has, but this was a fuck of a disciplined chore I had to do in grade four, I believe (around age 10): We had to identify all fifty US states on an unmarked map (apart from state lines) plus all their capitals. And a kid had to retake the test until s/he got 100%. Same thing will Canada's provinces and a map of Central America. Really not much more than rote memorization, I suppose, but really quite demanding. (Back then, when I had a memory, I got 'em all on the first try.)
Pretty cool that you learned about the U.S. states in Canada; I remember similar tests in U.S. grade school, but we didn't learn anything about the political system of Canada, or any other country for that matter. We barely learned about our own political system, let alone any other or alternative. For whatever reason(s).
then don't go killing all the bees

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Re: Canadian politics gets innerestin'

Post by Dr. Medulla » 02 Dec 2008, 1:25pm

dpwolf wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
dpwolf wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:how did we get to the point where people don't know how their political system works
:hmm: because we don't really teach it in school ?
The sobering voice of truth makes me said. I'm glad that I don't have kids because I'm sure I'd be in a persistent state of fury re. what kids learn. I have a couple friends who are teachers and the stuff they tell me angers up my blood. Now, I don't know how much practical value this has, but this was a fuck of a disciplined chore I had to do in grade four, I believe (around age 10): We had to identify all fifty US states on an unmarked map (apart from state lines) plus all their capitals. And a kid had to retake the test until s/he got 100%. Same thing will Canada's provinces and a map of Central America. Really not much more than rote memorization, I suppose, but really quite demanding. (Back then, when I had a memory, I got 'em all on the first try.)
Pretty cool that you learned about the U.S. states in Canada; I remember similar tests in U.S. grade school, but we didn't learn anything about the political system of Canada, or any other country for that matter. We barely learned about our own political system, let alone any other or alternative. For whatever reason(s).
The mouse has a greater reason to know about the elephant than vice versa.

Oh, here's a much better description of the nuts and bolts of how prime ministers and governments are formed, and how it applies to the current situation: http://raisethehammer.org/blog.asp?id=1170
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