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eumaas
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ridiculous

Post by eumaas »

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/ ... socia.html

This supposed libertarian manages to forget the recent history of conservatism--militarist neocons on the one hand and intrusive totalitarian-leaning Christian rightists on the other. And this comment is laughable:
Ultimately, here is the point that libertarians should consider. Since conservatives believe in weak, small government, that is a built-in safeguard inherent to conservatism that keeps them from going too far on the social side. Conservative has a built-in check-and-balance in that way.

But liberalism's belief in smothering, powerful central governments gives them the power to make reality of whatever they socially believe in. And the facts of our society since FDR bear that out.

No only does this show, as Hoven concluded, that libertarians have nothing to fear from conservatives, but it also means that libertarians and conservatives cannot SURVIVE without one another.

It's time to "partner up" to slay the beast on the other side.
Which conservatives believe this? Few of the ones in office.

Jeffrey Tucker annihilates this sort of thinking:
Some protest that conservatism once meant resistance to the welfare-warfare state. That is a fascinating piece of historiography, as interesting as the fact that liberalism once meant freedom from the state. Glasses were once called spectacles too, but in our times, language has it own meaning.

In our times, the meaning of conservatism is violence. It means violence against foreigners and violence against political dissidents. It means celebrating violence as the right and proper method of government policy. It means soundly rejecting the views of those who doubt the merit of violence as the omnipotent tool of domestic and international order.

Just look at the books, if you can stand it. They are everywhere at the bookstores. Read them and get on the side of the state and its killing machine before the state sides against you. In these tracts we discover that to be conservative is to sit up and face the bloodshed with the courage to celebrate it.

Indeed, the very meaning of conservatism is to reject all that smarmy liberal stuff about human rights and peace and face the productive power of war and conflict. True morality is embedded in the cold hard steel of tanks, bombers, and prison bars. Government by Democrats should be limited but government by Republicans should be expensive, global, militarized, unchallenged, omnipresent, and if you don't like it, what have you got to hide?

Organized conservatism dishes out this message to you in a package you prefer. For the illiterate there is talk radio. For geeks, there are innumerable e-zines. For the religiously minded, there is the version with scriptural proof texting and its associated rhetorical apparatus. For those with intellectual pretensions, there are professors of ancient history to tell us that Sparta had the right way about it, and that the Roman Empire at its height might have lasted forever had it not been for weak-kneed Christians that hindered the triumph of the will.

Oh, and for those who don't go for the rah-rah stuff, and find base nationalism a tad unseemly, there is the contemplative brand of conservatism that requires quiet reflection on higher things, with noses in the air even as the blood rises to the ankles, knees, and hips.

Or maybe policy wonkery is just not your bag. You care about the "moral issues." In that case, the GOP has a package for you that will whip you into a frenzy about abortion, gay marriage, and stem cells – it really doesn't matter so long as you continue to cheer the commander in chief and do your part to keep the dangerous Democrats out of power.

Yes, I've heard all the arguments that this is "phony conservatism," or "neoconservatism," or "conservatism that has sold out to the Republican Party," but all of these qualifications and apologies are increasingly strained.

What we find in these disgraceful tracts is plain and simple orthodox conservatism: violent, blood-thirsty, and anti-intellectual. All the years that the party of freedom warned about the dangers of the left and what do we find? We find that the real hammer blows to American liberty are being delivered by an unexpected source: the right you might once have thought represented a freedom-minded alternative to Clinton and Carter.

You were lied to.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/tucker/tucker46.html
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: ridiculous

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eumaas wrote:http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/ ... socia.html

This supposed libertarian manages to forget the recent history of conservatism--militarist neocons on the one hand and intrusive totalitarian-leaning Christian rightists on the other. And this comment is laughable:
Ultimately, here is the point that libertarians should consider. Since conservatives believe in weak, small government, that is a built-in safeguard inherent to conservatism that keeps them from going too far on the social side. Conservative has a built-in check-and-balance in that way.

But liberalism's belief in smothering, powerful central governments gives them the power to make reality of whatever they socially believe in. And the facts of our society since FDR bear that out.

No only does this show, as Hoven concluded, that libertarians have nothing to fear from conservatives, but it also means that libertarians and conservatives cannot SURVIVE without one another.

It's time to "partner up" to slay the beast on the other side.
Which conservatives believe this? Few of the ones in office.
They believe it when in opposition. In the next four years you'll be hearing all about unacceptable government intrusion into people's lives from the same group who have been silent or rationalizing the past eight. Indeed, the Patriot Act might suddenly become odious now that that sinister Moozlem is wielding it.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

eumaas
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Re: ridiculous

Post by eumaas »

Dr. Medulla wrote:They believe it when in opposition. In the next four years you'll be hearing all about unacceptable government intrusion into people's lives from the same group who have been silent or rationalizing the past eight. Indeed, the Patriot Act might suddenly become odious now that that sinister Moozlem is wielding it.
Cocksuckers. I had to take their abuse during their federal power grab and foreign adventuring and now they'll pose as anti-authoritarians.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

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Re: ridiculous

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eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:They believe it when in opposition. In the next four years you'll be hearing all about unacceptable government intrusion into people's lives from the same group who have been silent or rationalizing the past eight. Indeed, the Patriot Act might suddenly become odious now that that sinister Moozlem is wielding it.
Cocksuckers. I had to take their abuse during their federal power grab and foreign adventuring and now they'll pose as anti-authoritarians.
Without really defending them, it's not surprising or unique. It's politicking. Whoever is in opposition has the luxury of arguing from ideals because there's no consequences to their actions or inactions. I'm rarely disappointed by a new govt failing to live up to it's pre-election rhetoric nor am I especially heartened by lofty opposition critique—95% of it is game playing by all involved.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

dpwolf
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Re: ridiculous

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Last edited by dpwolf on 25 Nov 2008, 1:21pm, edited 1 time in total.
then don't go killing all the bees

Still216
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Re: ridiculous

Post by Still216 »

Dr. Medulla wrote: They believe it when in opposition. In the next four years you'll be hearing all about unacceptable government intrusion into people's lives from the same group who have been silent or rationalizing the past eight. Indeed, the Patriot Act might suddenly become odious now that that sinister Moozlem is wielding it.
The talk radio folks are already blaming the sinking economy on Obama's election, and he's not even president yet. I'm wondering what the exact date was that the blame shifted from the recession Bush inherited from Clinton squarely to Obama's shoulders.

I was driving with someone who was listening to Hannity the day after the election, and his new angle is that conservatism is now an "underground" movement and that his show is the "gathering point of the conservative underground". Meanwhile Hannity's radio ratings are through the roof and I'm sure his ad rates are now, too.
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Re: ridiculous

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Still216 wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote: They believe it when in opposition. In the next four years you'll be hearing all about unacceptable government intrusion into people's lives from the same group who have been silent or rationalizing the past eight. Indeed, the Patriot Act might suddenly become odious now that that sinister Moozlem is wielding it.
The talk radio folks are already blaming the sinking economy on Obama's election, and he wasn't even president yet. I'm wondering what the exact date was that the blame shifted from the recession Bush inherited from Clinton squarely to Obama's shoulders.

I was driving with someone who was listening to Hannity the day after the election, and his new angle is that conservatism is now an "underground" movement and that his show is the "gathering point of the conservative underground". Meanwhile Hannity's radio ratings are through the roof and I'm sure his ad rates are now, too.
The seeds were planted months ago. Before McCain clinched the nomination but it was clear he would, Limbaugh et al were already preparing the script that if he lost it'd be because he wasn't conservative enough, that greater ideological purity (read: greater divorce from reality) was necessary. So, yeah, all the bad in the world is due to the heretics and boogeymen, not due to roughly thirty years of turning to keys over to Wall Street con men.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

eumaas
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Re: ridiculous

Post by eumaas »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
Still216 wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote: They believe it when in opposition. In the next four years you'll be hearing all about unacceptable government intrusion into people's lives from the same group who have been silent or rationalizing the past eight. Indeed, the Patriot Act might suddenly become odious now that that sinister Moozlem is wielding it.
The talk radio folks are already blaming the sinking economy on Obama's election, and he wasn't even president yet. I'm wondering what the exact date was that the blame shifted from the recession Bush inherited from Clinton squarely to Obama's shoulders.

I was driving with someone who was listening to Hannity the day after the election, and his new angle is that conservatism is now an "underground" movement and that his show is the "gathering point of the conservative underground". Meanwhile Hannity's radio ratings are through the roof and I'm sure his ad rates are now, too.
The seeds were planted months ago. Before McCain clinched the nomination but it was clear he would, Limbaugh et al were already preparing the script that if he lost it'd be because he wasn't conservative enough, that greater ideological purity (read: greater divorce from reality) was necessary. So, yeah, all the bad in the world is due to the heretics and boogeymen, not due to roughly thirty years of turning to keys over to Wall Street con men.
"Conservative" has become meaningless. Does it mean limited govt? Interventionism? Theocracy? Right-libertarianism?
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

Dr. Medulla
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Re: ridiculous

Post by Dr. Medulla »

eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
Still216 wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote: They believe it when in opposition. In the next four years you'll be hearing all about unacceptable government intrusion into people's lives from the same group who have been silent or rationalizing the past eight. Indeed, the Patriot Act might suddenly become odious now that that sinister Moozlem is wielding it.
The talk radio folks are already blaming the sinking economy on Obama's election, and he wasn't even president yet. I'm wondering what the exact date was that the blame shifted from the recession Bush inherited from Clinton squarely to Obama's shoulders.

I was driving with someone who was listening to Hannity the day after the election, and his new angle is that conservatism is now an "underground" movement and that his show is the "gathering point of the conservative underground". Meanwhile Hannity's radio ratings are through the roof and I'm sure his ad rates are now, too.
The seeds were planted months ago. Before McCain clinched the nomination but it was clear he would, Limbaugh et al were already preparing the script that if he lost it'd be because he wasn't conservative enough, that greater ideological purity (read: greater divorce from reality) was necessary. So, yeah, all the bad in the world is due to the heretics and boogeymen, not due to roughly thirty years of turning to keys over to Wall Street con men.
"Conservative" has become meaningless. Does it mean limited govt? Interventionism? Theocracy? Right-libertarianism?
Well, of course. It's like any spectrum political term—it's a piece of clay to be molded to whatever anyone wants.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

eumaas
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Re: ridiculous

Post by eumaas »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
Still216 wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote: They believe it when in opposition. In the next four years you'll be hearing all about unacceptable government intrusion into people's lives from the same group who have been silent or rationalizing the past eight. Indeed, the Patriot Act might suddenly become odious now that that sinister Moozlem is wielding it.
The talk radio folks are already blaming the sinking economy on Obama's election, and he wasn't even president yet. I'm wondering what the exact date was that the blame shifted from the recession Bush inherited from Clinton squarely to Obama's shoulders.

I was driving with someone who was listening to Hannity the day after the election, and his new angle is that conservatism is now an "underground" movement and that his show is the "gathering point of the conservative underground". Meanwhile Hannity's radio ratings are through the roof and I'm sure his ad rates are now, too.
The seeds were planted months ago. Before McCain clinched the nomination but it was clear he would, Limbaugh et al were already preparing the script that if he lost it'd be because he wasn't conservative enough, that greater ideological purity (read: greater divorce from reality) was necessary. So, yeah, all the bad in the world is due to the heretics and boogeymen, not due to roughly thirty years of turning to keys over to Wall Street con men.
"Conservative" has become meaningless. Does it mean limited govt? Interventionism? Theocracy? Right-libertarianism?
Well, of course. It's like any spectrum political term—it's a piece of clay to be molded to whatever anyone wants.
I think "liberal" and "conservative" are Trojan horse covers for a common understanding of the state. It starts coming down to priorities and cultural values.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

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