History's greatest conspiracy theories

[eumaas]

Zenarchy

I'm stuck on Socrates/Logicians v. Phaedrus/Sophists. It's easy to break something down by logic but it's much more difficult to create a lasting theory, regime or other structure. Intellect, words, numbers and logic are merely knives; they need direction. From my extremely abbreviated investigation and limited understanding of Discord and Zenarchy, and anarchy, they all seem focused upon joking irrational critiques, which are okay, but generally upon breaking things down rather than finding (or asserting) a solution.

Read the Principia Discordia (and read it closely) and then read Zenarchy. You'll have an entirely different understanding.

It's hyperrational.

Yep. Zenarchy is actually a natural rights/natural law doctrine. And wu wei is about acting in accord with the tao, which can be seen as living a life harmonious with natural rights and the nonaggression principle. But the perspective is different than the fully Western one. It also includes a sensible place for spontaneous order. Creative order and creative disorder are celebrated--destructive order (i.e. totalitarianism, central planning, etc) and destructive disorder (bellum omnium contra omnes) are abhorred.

"To choose order over disorder, or disorder over order, is to accept a trip composed of both the creative and the destructive. But to choose the creative over the destructive is an all-creative trip composed of both order and disorder. To accomplish this, one need only accept creative disorder along with, and equal to, creative order, and also willing to reject destructive order as an undesirable equal to destructive disorder."
- The Principia Discordia

EDIT: I suppose you could call it "creativism"--the emphasis on disorder is a corrective one. It's deeper than mere chaos, though.

[dpwolf]

as Gonzo is to journalism?

[eumaas]

as Gonzo is to journalism?

Beats me. Gonzo seems to mean "anything HST did or people do in imitation of him." The other writer most often called gonzo is P. J. O'Rourke and his writing is not all that much like HST's. I love both, though--and disagree about equally with both.

[Dr. Medulla]

Speaking of Gonzo, there's a torrent on Demonoid of The Gonzo Tapes, which have recently been released. These are the tapes HST made while in Vegas to write what became FaLiLV. As much as I love early 70s HST, I can't help but think it'd be a massive let down to hear his rambling.

[eumaas]

Speaking of Gonzo, there's a torrent on Demonoid of The Gonzo Tapes, which have recently been released. These are the tapes HST made while in Vegas to write what became FaLiLV. As much as I love early 70s HST, I can't help but think it'd be a massive let down to hear his rambling.

I just downloaded those a while back and they sound pretty much like my own tapes--recording conversations and things going on mixed in with notes and shit towards writing. He had an obsessive streak about documenting his life (he copied all of his letters for example) that I kind of share, so it's interesting in that sense.

Haven't finished listening to them, but there's not a lot of rambling per se (and it spans from Hells Angels to the fall of Saigon, not just F&LiLV). He still used conventional journalistic methods--the Kentucky Derby piece was originally a deadline-induced fuckup that somehow worked. I distrust almost all HST imitation though. Like I said, O'Rourke's the only guy who really does it right, and he's much more on-point and focused than Thompson.

I need to type up O'Rourke's assessment of F&LiLV sometime--he basically says that HST creates epic drama out of nothing, and on the tapes you get the nothing, so it can be disappointing.

[Dr. Medulla]

I distrust almost all HST imitation though.

I agree. You need to know how to write "properly" before you can tackle the seemingly scattershot approach of HST. Too many aspiring Gonzo wannabes figure they can just do some kind of stream of consciousness and it'll be gold. Um, no. I actually like the "Generation of Swine" collection of newspaper columns because it shows how disciplined he actually was with his work.

[eumaas]

I distrust almost all HST imitation though.

I agree. You need to know how to write "properly" before you can tackle the seemingly scattershot approach of HST. Too many aspiring Gonzo wannabes figure they can just do some kind of stream of consciousness and it'll be gold. Um, no. I actually like the "Generation of Swine" collection of newspaper columns because it shows how disciplined he actually was with his work.

I haven't read that one--just ordered it from Amazon for $0.01 plus $3.99 s/h. Might be a good model for some of the things I'm trying to do now.

[Dr. Medulla]

I distrust almost all HST imitation though.

I agree. You need to know how to write "properly" before you can tackle the seemingly scattershot approach of HST. Too many aspiring Gonzo wannabes figure they can just do some kind of stream of consciousness and it'll be gold. Um, no. I actually like the "Generation of Swine" collection of newspaper columns because it shows how disciplined he actually was with his work.

I haven't read that one--just ordered it from Amazon for $0.01 plus $3.99 s/h. Might be a good model for some of the things I'm trying to do now.

It's a shock to people who are expecting the drug-fueled rants and hallucinations of his Rolling Stone pieces, where he lets Raoul Duke let fly. The Chronicle columns are necessarily short, but, even more, they're damn tight. A discipline there that at first glance would seem surprising.

[dpwolf]

"Hey Rube" is pretty good too, as an example of the basis of how he can write 'properly' or whatever. It's a collection of on-line articles. His ability to flow between sports (football) and politics is fascinating and shows a lot of skill.

[Dr. Medulla]

"Hey Rube" is pretty good too, as an example of the basis of how he can write 'properly' or whatever. It's a collection of on-line articles. His ability to flow between sports (football) and politics is fascinating and shows a lot of skill.

I didn't read a lot of those, but I was usually impressed. Far better than when he tried to channel the Raoul Duke persona in his later writing (80s onward). It came off as self-parody.

[eumaas]

"Hey Rube" is pretty good too, as an example of the basis of how he can write 'properly' or whatever. It's a collection of on-line articles. His ability to flow between sports (football) and politics is fascinating and shows a lot of skill.

I didn't read a lot of those, but I was usually impressed. Far better than when he tried to channel the Raoul Duke persona in his later writing (80s onward). It came off as self-parody.

My favorite was his final one:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=1992213

[nsc]

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[101Walterton]

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So did he have the twin Towers rigged with explosives on the off chance that one day terrorists would fly into them in a jumbo jet so that he could blow them up without arousing suspicion

[nsc]

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So did he have the twin Towers rigged with explosives on the off chance that one day terrorists would fly into them in a jumbo jet so that he could blow them up without arousing suspicion

i think it's what they call a done deal or as lee harvey would have said 'patsy'.