why I did not vote for Obama

[bronxcityrocker24]

Long time since I have been here.

I supported Obama and being that this will be my first election that I can vote for as an 18 year old I have to say, that most people my age (young members of the text generation) and most people that I live around (urban community of the run down bronx) the amount of people that registerd to vote just to vote for Obama was amazeing. But the amount of people who voted for Obama and rock the pins and got the shirts on yet didn't know anything about Obama's policy was also amazeing.

I was always a big left wing marxist whatever you wanna say, but than I started getting paid by a legit boss and saw that they take half of what I make. Obama's policy will effect me and I don't make 250,000 but the man who pays me does, and if he is not happy I won't get paid.

Also I am spanish, and that makes me the majority over here, and blacks are also highly populated here, but alot of black people accuse non blacks of being raceist because they wouldn't vote for Obama, yet look how many blacks voted for Obama just cuz he is black.

I think either way we are fucked, and people need to stop acting like Obama is Jesus. I hate conservitve ways, but the left is way to soft. Bush sucked and thats a given, but I feel safer under a republican.

what if all these promisies dont come true? Alot of people think hes gonna open up jails and there was many partys here last night, screamin "no more white man"

idk im sick of people lookin for hand outs, my family came here with nothing and earned what they needed, and I do to, but in the Bronx, its stupid how many people got Escalades, and all this expensive shit yet the hood wants to cry poverty. IDK just wanted to vent


PS
It's been a year since I'v been on this board, but I still remember how nice everyone was to send me Clash shows when I never heard them live, that was like 4 years ago but I stil have em all.

[MadModWorld]

So you let other people's ill-informed, bias views affect your ones in such a large way?

Oh... I see...

[tepista]

Bush sucked and thats a given, but I feel safer under a republican.

In regards to terrorist attacks? I hear that all the time, but I recall Bush being president on 9-11.

[BostonBeaneater]

One thing you fail to recognize on the tax issue is that the pay and benefits that your bossman pays you is a tax write-off for him. The 250,000 grand, as I understand it, is based on profit after expenses. As an employee, you are an expense who helps generate profit.

That dumb ass shill who no one paid much attention too, Joe the Plumber, was spewing complete nonsense. He said that he would be taxed more for buying a $250,000 business. Not true. In fact, that cash outlay would be a write-off just like your pay would be a write off.

The Republicans did well on playing to peoples' lack of understanding things. Do your homework.

[Spiff]

... than I started getting paid by a legit boss and saw that they take half of what I make.

I don't like paying taxes either, but they are the price we pay for civilization. (I think Winston Churchill first said that.)

In other words, your money goes toward a common good, and you benefit from it via the roads you drive or ride on, the schools you went to (and schools any future kids you may have will go to), a military force that protects you (regardless of how it is often misused), research funds that may find a cure for AIDS or cancer, and a whole lot of other stuff.

The question you should be asking is whether you are getting good value for your tax dollars, not whether you will pay more taxes under Politician A than under Politician B, which is a very selfish argument indeed. I prefer to base my voting decisions on something larger than "What's in it for me?" (And I think the world would be a better place if more people did so too! )

P.S. Welcome back!

[eumaas]

... than I started getting paid by a legit boss and saw that they take half of what I make.

I don't like paying taxes either, but they are the price we pay for civilization. (I think Winston Churchill first said that.)

In other words, your money goes toward a common good, and you benefit from it via the roads you drive or ride on, the schools you went to (and schools any future kids you may have will go to), a military force that protects you (regardless of how it is often misused), research funds that may find a cure for AIDS or cancer, and a whole lot of other stuff.

The question you should be asking is whether you are getting good value for your tax dollars, not whether you will pay more taxes under Politician A than under Politician B, which is a very selfish argument indeed. I prefer to base my voting decisions on something larger than "What's in it for me?" (And I think the world would be a better place if more people did so too! )

P.S. Welcome back!

Spiff: the Naked Statist/Nude Apologist for the Establishment.

Needless to say, I disagree, and I'd rather frame it this way: if you think the state is valuable and you believe in its utility, then it needs to be funded somehow, so pay your fucking taxes. Now, the structure of taxation (form and rate), what your taxes fund, and how effectively is that money allocated: those are all questions you can ask. But so long as you think the state is legitimate, it's your duty to pay taxes.

On the other hand, if you think it's an illegitimate entity, then not paying your taxes (tax resistance) is a form of civil disobedience I can respect, though I don't practice it for practical reasons (i.e. I like not being it jail).

[Dr. Medulla]

On the other hand, if you think it's an illegitimate entity, then not paying your taxes (tax resistance) is a form of civil disobedience I can respect, though I don't practice it for practical reasons (i.e. I like not being it jail).

Thoreau just called in a pussy from the afterlife.

edit: BTW, I prefer to think of my taxes as investments in the common good. I'm not pleased where that money goes at times, but I also know that it'd almost certainly cost me more if every public service I help pay for were privatized.

[eumaas]

On the other hand, if you think it's an illegitimate entity, then not paying your taxes (tax resistance) is a form of civil disobedience I can respect, though I don't practice it for practical reasons (i.e. I like not being it jail).

Thoreau just called in a pussy from the afterlife.

I'm well aware of how I fall from my principles--i.e. I just voted, I'm not a tax resister, I don't have a harem**, etc.




** Nothing to do with anarchism, I just like concubines.

[Dr. Medulla]

On the other hand, if you think it's an illegitimate entity, then not paying your taxes (tax resistance) is a form of civil disobedience I can respect, though I don't practice it for practical reasons (i.e. I like not being it jail).

Thoreau just called in a pussy from the afterlife.

I'm well aware of how I fall from my principles--i.e. I just voted, I'm not a tax resister, I don't have a harem**, etc.




** Nothing to do with anarchism, I just like concubines.

You could move to Utah and give it a whirl.

[101Walterton]

... than I started getting paid by a legit boss and saw that they take half of what I make.

I don't like paying taxes either, but they are the price we pay for civilization. (I think Winston Churchill first said that.)

In other words, your money goes toward a common good, and you benefit from it via the roads you drive or ride on, the schools you went to (and schools any future kids you may have will go to), a military force that protects you (regardless of how it is often misused), research funds that may find a cure for AIDS or cancer, and a whole lot of other stuff.

The question you should be asking is whether you are getting good value for your tax dollars, not whether you will pay more taxes under Politician A than under Politician B, which is a very selfish argument indeed. I prefer to base my voting decisions on something larger than "What's in it for me?" (And I think the world would be a better place if more people did so too! )

P.S. Welcome back!

Spiff: the Naked Statist/Nude Apologist for the Establishment.

Needless to say, I disagree, and I'd rather frame it this way: if you think the state is valuable and you believe in its utility, then it needs to be funded somehow, so pay your fucking taxes. Now, the structure of taxation (form and rate), what your taxes fund, and how effectively is that money allocated: those are all questions you can ask. But so long as you think the state is legitimate, it's your duty to pay taxes.

On the other hand, if you think it's an illegitimate entity, then not paying your taxes (tax resistance) is a form of civil disobedience I can respect, though I don't practice it for practical reasons (i.e. I like not being it jail).

Whilst enjoying the protection and freedom provided by the government as well as your access to education ?

[eumaas]

edit: BTW, I prefer to think of my taxes as investments in the common good. I'm not pleased where that money goes at times, but I also know that it'd almost certainly cost me more if every public service I help pay for were privatized.

I suppose that depends on the kind of privatization we're talking about. Monopolies have greater price-setting power than would small firms in a highly competitive market.** The state itself is a monopoly, so it can be subject to the same tendencies in price-setting. On the other hand, it also shares in the same positives of monopolies plus the state's ability to rack up debt with impunity and print loads of fiat money. So yes, it can be cheaper. Then it becomes a matter of case by case, and also the broader question of whether the service is as effective as it would be otherwise (i.e. would the higher price be worth it), and whether it's a good idea in itself (consies and liberals agree on the same principle of "yes if we like it, no if we don't"). Stuff like this is why I find charges of "socialism" directed towards Obama so funny--we're pretty fucking socialist as it is, just not the good kind.


** The question is whether monopolies will arise naturally. The answer: yes, they do, but if barriers to entry are low they only persist for as long as there's not enough dissatisfaction to drum up competition. The problem is that there are 1. state-created monopolies, and 2. state-supported monopolies--i.e. where the gov't deliberately muscles out competition by various forms of regulation that create serious barriers to entry. Basically, big business looks to protect its ass from competition and so strikes a deal with the politicians.

[dpwolf]

Obama is Jesus

Get real. He doesn't even have a beard!

[eumaas]

... than I started getting paid by a legit boss and saw that they take half of what I make.

I don't like paying taxes either, but they are the price we pay for civilization. (I think Winston Churchill first said that.)

In other words, your money goes toward a common good, and you benefit from it via the roads you drive or ride on, the schools you went to (and schools any future kids you may have will go to), a military force that protects you (regardless of how it is often misused), research funds that may find a cure for AIDS or cancer, and a whole lot of other stuff.

The question you should be asking is whether you are getting good value for your tax dollars, not whether you will pay more taxes under Politician A than under Politician B, which is a very selfish argument indeed. I prefer to base my voting decisions on something larger than "What's in it for me?" (And I think the world would be a better place if more people did so too! )

P.S. Welcome back!

Spiff: the Naked Statist/Nude Apologist for the Establishment.

Needless to say, I disagree, and I'd rather frame it this way: if you think the state is valuable and you believe in its utility, then it needs to be funded somehow, so pay your fucking taxes. Now, the structure of taxation (form and rate), what your taxes fund, and how effectively is that money allocated: those are all questions you can ask. But so long as you think the state is legitimate, it's your duty to pay taxes.

On the other hand, if you think it's an illegitimate entity, then not paying your taxes (tax resistance) is a form of civil disobedience I can respect, though I don't practice it for practical reasons (i.e. I like not being it jail).

Whilst enjoying the protection and freedom provided by the government as well as your access to education ?

Freedom is not a gift doled out by the state.

[101Walterton]

... than I started getting paid by a legit boss and saw that they take half of what I make.

I don't like paying taxes either, but they are the price we pay for civilization. (I think Winston Churchill first said that.)

In other words, your money goes toward a common good, and you benefit from it via the roads you drive or ride on, the schools you went to (and schools any future kids you may have will go to), a military force that protects you (regardless of how it is often misused), research funds that may find a cure for AIDS or cancer, and a whole lot of other stuff.

The question you should be asking is whether you are getting good value for your tax dollars, not whether you will pay more taxes under Politician A than under Politician B, which is a very selfish argument indeed. I prefer to base my voting decisions on something larger than "What's in it for me?" (And I think the world would be a better place if more people did so too! )

P.S. Welcome back!

Spiff: the Naked Statist/Nude Apologist for the Establishment.

Needless to say, I disagree, and I'd rather frame it this way: if you think the state is valuable and you believe in its utility, then it needs to be funded somehow, so pay your fucking taxes. Now, the structure of taxation (form and rate), what your taxes fund, and how effectively is that money allocated: those are all questions you can ask. But so long as you think the state is legitimate, it's your duty to pay taxes.

On the other hand, if you think it's an illegitimate entity, then not paying your taxes (tax resistance) is a form of civil disobedience I can respect, though I don't practice it for practical reasons (i.e. I like not being it jail).

Whilst enjoying the protection and freedom provided by the government as well as your access to education ?

Freedom is not a gift doled out by the state.

No but it is protected by the State you know that.

[eumaas]

I don't like paying taxes either, but they are the price we pay for civilization. (I think Winston Churchill first said that.)

In other words, your money goes toward a common good, and you benefit from it via the roads you drive or ride on, the schools you went to (and schools any future kids you may have will go to), a military force that protects you (regardless of how it is often misused), research funds that may find a cure for AIDS or cancer, and a whole lot of other stuff.

The question you should be asking is whether you are getting good value for your tax dollars, not whether you will pay more taxes under Politician A than under Politician B, which is a very selfish argument indeed. I prefer to base my voting decisions on something larger than "What's in it for me?" (And I think the world would be a better place if more people did so too! )

P.S. Welcome back!

Spiff: the Naked Statist/Nude Apologist for the Establishment.

Needless to say, I disagree, and I'd rather frame it this way: if you think the state is valuable and you believe in its utility, then it needs to be funded somehow, so pay your fucking taxes. Now, the structure of taxation (form and rate), what your taxes fund, and how effectively is that money allocated: those are all questions you can ask. But so long as you think the state is legitimate, it's your duty to pay taxes.

On the other hand, if you think it's an illegitimate entity, then not paying your taxes (tax resistance) is a form of civil disobedience I can respect, though I don't practice it for practical reasons (i.e. I like not being it jail).

Whilst enjoying the protection and freedom provided by the government as well as your access to education ?

Freedom is not a gift doled out by the state.

No but it is protected by the State you know that.

Nope.