Tonight ought to be interesting

Politics and other such topical creams.
Dr. Medulla
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Re: Tonight ought to be interesting

Post by Dr. Medulla »

eumaas wrote:Yeah! There we go. There is some overlap between conservatism and anarchism--anarchism's just more consistent.
Depending on what elements of conservatism you focus on, yeah, definitely. Again, spectrum politics has no valid place in post-modern life.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

dpwolf
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Re: Tonight ought to be interesting

Post by dpwolf »

eumaas wrote:
dpwolf wrote:
eumaas wrote:If I vote for Obama
Are you kidding? Please tell me you are and are not going to vote based on how people who declare support of a party have reacted to your saying your an anarchist.
Perhaps it was best if I just said "If I vote" and left it at that.
Better, perhaps, but not best. Why would you not vote? Do you have no preference? Does it support/assert some anarchist agenda?
then don't go killing all the bees

eumaas
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Re: Tonight ought to be interesting

Post by eumaas »

dpwolf wrote:
eumaas wrote:
dpwolf wrote:
eumaas wrote:If I vote for Obama
Are you kidding? Please tell me you are and are not going to vote based on how people who declare support of a party have reacted to your saying your an anarchist.
Perhaps it was best if I just said "If I vote" and left it at that.
Better, perhaps, but not best. Why would you not vote? Do you have no preference? Does it support/assert some anarchist agenda?
Voting's a moral issue for me. I've been abstentionist my whole life. I'm registered to vote, but I do not vote. My overlap of views with Obama is not all that much greater than that with McCain. Choosing Democrat or Republican is a cultural choice, not a meaningful political one from my position.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Tonight ought to be interesting

Post by Dr. Medulla »

eumaas wrote:
dpwolf wrote:
eumaas wrote:
dpwolf wrote:
eumaas wrote:If I vote for Obama
Are you kidding? Please tell me you are and are not going to vote based on how people who declare support of a party have reacted to your saying your an anarchist.
Perhaps it was best if I just said "If I vote" and left it at that.
Better, perhaps, but not best. Why would you not vote? Do you have no preference? Does it support/assert some anarchist agenda?
Voting's a moral issue for me. I've been abstentionist my whole life. I'm registered to vote, but I do not vote. My overlap of views with Obama is not all that much greater than that with McCain. Choosing Democrat or Republican is a cultural choice, not a meaningful political one from my position.
How about spoiling your ballot? Regardless of how the vote breaks down, I think participation rates are a significant check on the contempt that elected officials feel for their constituents.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Flex
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Re: Tonight ought to be interesting

Post by Flex »

Plus, there's always local candidates and ballot measures to consider. Even if it was just to vote against everything that comes up.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

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eumaas
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Re: Tonight ought to be interesting

Post by eumaas »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:
dpwolf wrote:
eumaas wrote:
dpwolf wrote: Are you kidding? Please tell me you are and are not going to vote based on how people who declare support of a party have reacted to your saying your an anarchist.
Perhaps it was best if I just said "If I vote" and left it at that.
Better, perhaps, but not best. Why would you not vote? Do you have no preference? Does it support/assert some anarchist agenda?
Voting's a moral issue for me. I've been abstentionist my whole life. I'm registered to vote, but I do not vote. My overlap of views with Obama is not all that much greater than that with McCain. Choosing Democrat or Republican is a cultural choice, not a meaningful political one from my position.
How about spoiling your ballot? Regardless of how the vote breaks down, I think participation rates are a significant check on the contempt that elected officials feel for their constituents.
Possibly, but any participation at all seems to lend it some legitimacy.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Tonight ought to be interesting

Post by Dr. Medulla »

eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:
dpwolf wrote:
eumaas wrote: Perhaps it was best if I just said "If I vote" and left it at that.
Better, perhaps, but not best. Why would you not vote? Do you have no preference? Does it support/assert some anarchist agenda?
Voting's a moral issue for me. I've been abstentionist my whole life. I'm registered to vote, but I do not vote. My overlap of views with Obama is not all that much greater than that with McCain. Choosing Democrat or Republican is a cultural choice, not a meaningful political one from my position.
How about spoiling your ballot? Regardless of how the vote breaks down, I think participation rates are a significant check on the contempt that elected officials feel for their constituents.
Possibly, but any participation at all seems to lend it some legitimacy.
True. One could also interpret it to be a yes to your desire to have a say in society and a big no to the options that you're presented. Depends, I guess, on how absolutist you want to be about the current electoral system.

There's also Carlin's opinion. He said he didn't vote, that way he could absolve himself of their screw ups—don't blame me, I didn't vote for these guys.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

eumaas
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Re: Tonight ought to be interesting

Post by eumaas »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:
dpwolf wrote: Better, perhaps, but not best. Why would you not vote? Do you have no preference? Does it support/assert some anarchist agenda?
Voting's a moral issue for me. I've been abstentionist my whole life. I'm registered to vote, but I do not vote. My overlap of views with Obama is not all that much greater than that with McCain. Choosing Democrat or Republican is a cultural choice, not a meaningful political one from my position.
How about spoiling your ballot? Regardless of how the vote breaks down, I think participation rates are a significant check on the contempt that elected officials feel for their constituents.
Possibly, but any participation at all seems to lend it some legitimacy.
True. One could also interpret it to be a yes to your desire to have a say in society and a big no to the options that you're presented. Depends, I guess, on how absolutist you want to be about the current electoral system.

There's also Carlin's opinion. He said he didn't vote, that way he could absolve himself of their screw ups—don't blame me, I didn't vote for these guys.
I've gotten a lot of shit for not voting from many people. My uncle went apeshit--if I didn't value family harmony so much I'd beat the shit out of him and my grandfather both. Nobody quite gets the distinction between apathy and moral qualms.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

dpwolf
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Re: Tonight ought to be interesting

Post by dpwolf »

There is more reason to vote this year than any other recently.
then don't go killing all the bees

eumaas
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Re: Tonight ought to be interesting

Post by eumaas »

Flex wrote:Plus, there's always local candidates and ballot measures to consider. Even if it was just to vote against everything that comes up.
Local politics here is always in the bag. It makes little difference which way I go.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

eumaas
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Re: Tonight ought to be interesting

Post by eumaas »

dpwolf wrote:There is more reason to vote this year than any other recently.
Try to put yourself in my shoes and tell me what the difference is. Obama's swung hard to the right like the Dems always do. Why do they do it? They pick up centrist votes and rely on the leftist portion of base to vote for them anyway. Why should I reward that behavior?

There's also the issue of the two-party system, which to me seems like a racket. Just look at the abortion issue.

I should also note that on one of the issues that matters a lot to me, the bailout, the Dems are very strongly for it.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Tonight ought to be interesting

Post by Dr. Medulla »

eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote: Voting's a moral issue for me. I've been abstentionist my whole life. I'm registered to vote, but I do not vote. My overlap of views with Obama is not all that much greater than that with McCain. Choosing Democrat or Republican is a cultural choice, not a meaningful political one from my position.
How about spoiling your ballot? Regardless of how the vote breaks down, I think participation rates are a significant check on the contempt that elected officials feel for their constituents.
Possibly, but any participation at all seems to lend it some legitimacy.
True. One could also interpret it to be a yes to your desire to have a say in society and a big no to the options that you're presented. Depends, I guess, on how absolutist you want to be about the current electoral system.

There's also Carlin's opinion. He said he didn't vote, that way he could absolve himself of their screw ups—don't blame me, I didn't vote for these guys.
I've gotten a lot of shit for not voting from many people. My uncle went apeshit--if I didn't value family harmony so much I'd beat the shit out of him and my grandfather both. Nobody quite gets the distinction between apathy and moral qualms.
You're paraphrasing the sole good line from Slacker: Withdrawing in disgust is not the same thing as apathy.

I don't agree with you not voting—the only election I've ever missed was held while I was in NC and, not expecting to return to Saskatchewan at the time, I didn't feel right about using an absentee ballot—but I greatly respect that you do it for principled (that is, informed) reasons.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

dpwolf
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Re: Tonight ought to be interesting

Post by dpwolf »

eumaas wrote:
dpwolf wrote:There is more reason to vote this year than any other recently.
Try to put yourself in my shoes and tell me what the difference is. Obama's swung hard to the right like the Dems always do. Why do they do it? They pick up centrist votes and rely on the leftist portion of base to vote for them anyway. Why should I reward that behavior?

There's also the issue of the two-party system, which to me seems like a racket. Just look at the abortion issue.

I should also note that on one of the issues that matters a lot to me, the bailout, the Dems are very strongly for it.
I could give a flying fuck about the parties and agree the two party system is a racket. No doubt. It sucks. But I don't want Bush's administration to continue in any shape or form.
then don't go killing all the bees

dpwolf
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Re: Tonight ought to be interesting

Post by dpwolf »

I recently had a discussion with a friend about how neither candidate will make the necessary changes, but the 'economic crisis' may be the catalyst we need.
then don't go killing all the bees

eumaas
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Re: Tonight ought to be interesting

Post by eumaas »

I feel like an hour spent sitting in zazen or spent conversing with someone about anarchy has a greater positive impact than the few minutes spent voting in a national election, just by ripple effects alone. Voting is choosing between two odious parties as to which gets to fuck me over--status quo remains the same, the machine keeps running, and no minds have been changed. Making a cup of green tea for an intelligent person and discussing what matters to me could, on the other hand, change a whole life and reorient how that person relates to the world. Sitting zazen does the same but for me--makes me a better, more able person.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

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