Oh Dear

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101Walterton
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Oh Dear

Post by 101Walterton » 23 Oct 2017, 2:23pm

I am old enough to be the Prime Minister’s dad!!!

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Oh Dear

Post by Dr. Medulla » 23 Oct 2017, 2:39pm

101Walterton wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:23pm
I am old enough to be the Prime Minister’s dad!!!
I was wondering what you thought about her. I've only read a few pieces in the Guardian, but am hopeful.
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

101Walterton
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Re: Oh Dear

Post by 101Walterton » 23 Oct 2017, 2:43pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:39pm
101Walterton wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:23pm
I am old enough to be the Prime Minister’s dad!!!
I was wondering what you thought about her. I've only read a few pieces in the Guardian, but am hopeful.
I have nothing against her (didn’t vote for her) I am sure in time she will make a great politician but Prime Minister when you have never even been in a government let alone a minister?

My gripe is with MMP which does not work in a country of less than 5 million people. We seriously do have a government most people did not vote for and is all down to one man who could not even win his own seat and is now Deputy Prime Minister.

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Oh Dear

Post by Dr. Medulla » 23 Oct 2017, 2:54pm

101Walterton wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:43pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:39pm
101Walterton wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:23pm
I am old enough to be the Prime Minister’s dad!!!
I was wondering what you thought about her. I've only read a few pieces in the Guardian, but am hopeful.
I have nothing against her (didn’t vote for her) I am sure in time she will make a great politician but Prime Minister when you have never even been in a government let alone a minister?
That was a common complaint about Trudeau here, but I'm less persuaded by that. It's not like the PM is actively crafting legislation and poring over data. In modern governments, PMs are there to provide general direction and be the face of the government (executive PR flacks, really). As long as she's smart enough to listen to her cabinet and senior bureaucrats rather than prove that she's the smartest woman in the room, it's not a major problem. Frankly, it's the leaders who do think they're the smartest person in the room and think they need to micromanage and overrule their experts that tend to fuck shit up.
My gripe is with MMP which does not work in a country of less than 5 million people. We seriously do have a government most people did not vote for and is all down to one man who could not even win his own seat and is now Deputy Prime Minister.
Yeah, I can see that with such a small population. Canada desperately needs something other than first past the post, where a strong majority can be had with 38% of the popular vote. But is that a constant problem in NZ or is this a freak occurrence? My problem with Canada's system is that only twice in the past sixty years have we had a government that won with more than 50% of the popular vote, yet most elections have produced strong majorities. Great for fans of stability, less so for those who see it as minority rule.
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

101Walterton
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Re: Oh Dear

Post by 101Walterton » 23 Oct 2017, 4:13pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:54pm
101Walterton wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:43pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:39pm
101Walterton wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:23pm
I am old enough to be the Prime Minister’s dad!!!
I was wondering what you thought about her. I've only read a few pieces in the Guardian, but am hopeful.
I have nothing against her (didn’t vote for her) I am sure in time she will make a great politician but Prime Minister when you have never even been in a government let alone a minister?
That was a common complaint about Trudeau here, but I'm less persuaded by that. It's not like the PM is actively crafting legislation and poring over data. In modern governments, PMs are there to provide general direction and be the face of the government (executive PR flacks, really). As long as she's smart enough to listen to her cabinet and senior bureaucrats rather than prove that she's the smartest woman in the room, it's not a major problem. Frankly, it's the leaders who do think they're the smartest person in the room and think they need to micromanage and overrule their experts that tend to fuck shit up.
My gripe is with MMP which does not work in a country of less than 5 million people. We seriously do have a government most people did not vote for and is all down to one man who could not even win his own seat and is now Deputy Prime Minister.
Yeah, I can see that with such a small population. Canada desperately needs something other than first past the post, where a strong majority can be had with 38% of the popular vote. But is that a constant problem in NZ or is this a freak occurrence? My problem with Canada's system is that only twice in the past sixty years have we had a government that won with more than 50% of the popular vote, yet most elections have produced strong majorities. Great for fans of stability, less so for those who see it as minority rule.
The problem is the majority of voters still vote on a first past the post basis. In this election National 46% Labour 37% which is not enough to form a government alone.
Labour have alliance with Greens who only got 4% so combined with Labour still only 41%.
NZ First lost all their seats but somehow polled 7% Of vote (by appealing to racist, sexist, homophobic, Xenophobic rednecks).
The end result being that NZ First’s leader holds all the power to choose National or Labour to form the government and in the process can negotiate Deputy Prime Minister for himself and 5 ministerial positions for his part of 9 MPs all of whom failed to win a seat????
How is that democracy.

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Oh Dear

Post by Dr. Medulla » 23 Oct 2017, 4:35pm

101Walterton wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 4:13pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:54pm
101Walterton wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:43pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:39pm
101Walterton wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:23pm
I am old enough to be the Prime Minister’s dad!!!
I was wondering what you thought about her. I've only read a few pieces in the Guardian, but am hopeful.
I have nothing against her (didn’t vote for her) I am sure in time she will make a great politician but Prime Minister when you have never even been in a government let alone a minister?
That was a common complaint about Trudeau here, but I'm less persuaded by that. It's not like the PM is actively crafting legislation and poring over data. In modern governments, PMs are there to provide general direction and be the face of the government (executive PR flacks, really). As long as she's smart enough to listen to her cabinet and senior bureaucrats rather than prove that she's the smartest woman in the room, it's not a major problem. Frankly, it's the leaders who do think they're the smartest person in the room and think they need to micromanage and overrule their experts that tend to fuck shit up.
My gripe is with MMP which does not work in a country of less than 5 million people. We seriously do have a government most people did not vote for and is all down to one man who could not even win his own seat and is now Deputy Prime Minister.
Yeah, I can see that with such a small population. Canada desperately needs something other than first past the post, where a strong majority can be had with 38% of the popular vote. But is that a constant problem in NZ or is this a freak occurrence? My problem with Canada's system is that only twice in the past sixty years have we had a government that won with more than 50% of the popular vote, yet most elections have produced strong majorities. Great for fans of stability, less so for those who see it as minority rule.
The problem is the majority of voters still vote on a first past the post basis. In this election National 46% Labour 37% which is not enough to form a government alone.
Labour have alliance with Greens who only got 4% so combined with Labour still only 41%.
NZ First lost all their seats but somehow polled 7% Of vote (by appealing to racist, sexist, homophobic, Xenophobic rednecks).
The end result being that NZ First’s leader holds all the power to choose National or Labour to form the government and in the process can negotiate Deputy Prime Minister for himself and 5 ministerial positions for his part of 9 MPs all of whom failed to win a seat????
How is that democracy.
Oh, I agree, it's littered with palace intrigue more than seeming expressions of the voters' wishes. That Labour makes a deal with xenophobes to gain power is something that should come back to bite them in the ass. The most you can say is that the coalition does make up a plurality of the voters, but otherwise it's ugly as fuck.
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

101Walterton
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Re: Oh Dear

Post by 101Walterton » 23 Oct 2017, 5:06pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 4:35pm
101Walterton wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 4:13pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:54pm
101Walterton wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:43pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 2:39pm


I was wondering what you thought about her. I've only read a few pieces in the Guardian, but am hopeful.
I have nothing against her (didn’t vote for her) I am sure in time she will make a great politician but Prime Minister when you have never even been in a government let alone a minister?
That was a common complaint about Trudeau here, but I'm less persuaded by that. It's not like the PM is actively crafting legislation and poring over data. In modern governments, PMs are there to provide general direction and be the face of the government (executive PR flacks, really). As long as she's smart enough to listen to her cabinet and senior bureaucrats rather than prove that she's the smartest woman in the room, it's not a major problem. Frankly, it's the leaders who do think they're the smartest person in the room and think they need to micromanage and overrule their experts that tend to fuck shit up.
My gripe is with MMP which does not work in a country of less than 5 million people. We seriously do have a government most people did not vote for and is all down to one man who could not even win his own seat and is now Deputy Prime Minister.
Yeah, I can see that with such a small population. Canada desperately needs something other than first past the post, where a strong majority can be had with 38% of the popular vote. But is that a constant problem in NZ or is this a freak occurrence? My problem with Canada's system is that only twice in the past sixty years have we had a government that won with more than 50% of the popular vote, yet most elections have produced strong majorities. Great for fans of stability, less so for those who see it as minority rule.
The problem is the majority of voters still vote on a first past the post basis. In this election National 46% Labour 37% which is not enough to form a government alone.
Labour have alliance with Greens who only got 4% so combined with Labour still only 41%.
NZ First lost all their seats but somehow polled 7% Of vote (by appealing to racist, sexist, homophobic, Xenophobic rednecks).
The end result being that NZ First’s leader holds all the power to choose National or Labour to form the government and in the process can negotiate Deputy Prime Minister for himself and 5 ministerial positions for his part of 9 MPs all of whom failed to win a seat????
How is that democracy.
Oh, I agree, it's littered with palace intrigue more than seeming expressions of the voters' wishes. That Labour makes a deal with xenophobes to gain power is something that should come back to bite them in the ass. The most you can say is that the coalition does make up a plurality of the voters, but otherwise it's ugly as fuck.
Exactly, Labour have to sell their soul to get the power but damage is done.
We have record high house prices
We have record homelessness
We have a housing shortage.
Labour wants to build houses
We have a labour shortage.
We don’t have the builders to build the houses.
We use immigration to find labour.
NZ First want to cut immigration in half
Labour has to agree to get in power
Labour in power and want to build the houses for the homeless.
Who is going to build them?

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Oh Dear

Post by Dr. Medulla » 23 Oct 2017, 5:24pm

101Walterton wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 5:06pm
Exactly, Labour have to sell their soul to get the power but damage is done.
We have record high house prices
We have record homelessness
We have a housing shortage.
Labour wants to build houses
We have a labour shortage.
We don’t have the builders to build the houses.
We use immigration to find labour.
NZ First want to cut immigration in half
Labour has to agree to get in power
Labour in power and want to build the houses for the homeless.
Who is going to build them?
You can already see some buyers remorse in the US from Trump voters who rely on Mexican agricultural labour. Yeah, crack down on all those illegals! Oh shit, who's going to harvest the produce crops? Which necessarily has a negative spillover effect on businesses that rely on farm income that is now shrinking. Gosh, it's almost as if there is an economic price to be paid for xenophobia when your economy has, to that point, relied on immigrant labour. It'd readjust in time, as people scale back expectations of what a good year looks like and businesses collapse and people lose their homes, but, hey, no more Mexican rapists!
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

101Walterton
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The Best
Posts: 14794
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 5:36pm
Location: Volcanic Rock In The Pacific

Re: Oh Dear

Post by 101Walterton » 23 Oct 2017, 5:39pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 5:24pm
101Walterton wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 5:06pm
Exactly, Labour have to sell their soul to get the power but damage is done.
We have record high house prices
We have record homelessness
We have a housing shortage.
Labour wants to build houses
We have a labour shortage.
We don’t have the builders to build the houses.
We use immigration to find labour.
NZ First want to cut immigration in half
Labour has to agree to get in power
Labour in power and want to build the houses for the homeless.
Who is going to build them?
You can already see some buyers remorse in the US from Trump voters who rely on Mexican agricultural labour. Yeah, crack down on all those illegals! Oh shit, who's going to harvest the produce crops? Which necessarily has a negative spillover effect on businesses that rely on farm income that is now shrinking. Gosh, it's almost as if there is an economic price to be paid for xenophobia when your economy has, to that point, relied on immigrant labour. It'd readjust in time, as people scale back expectations of what a good year looks like and businesses collapse and people lose their homes, but, hey, no more Mexican rapists!
End result, rents go up, landlords get richer, landlords buy more houses, house prices go up, Groundhog Day

Dr. Medulla
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Posts: 71084
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Re: Oh Dear

Post by Dr. Medulla » 23 Oct 2017, 5:54pm

101Walterton wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 5:39pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 5:24pm
101Walterton wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 5:06pm
Exactly, Labour have to sell their soul to get the power but damage is done.
We have record high house prices
We have record homelessness
We have a housing shortage.
Labour wants to build houses
We have a labour shortage.
We don’t have the builders to build the houses.
We use immigration to find labour.
NZ First want to cut immigration in half
Labour has to agree to get in power
Labour in power and want to build the houses for the homeless.
Who is going to build them?
You can already see some buyers remorse in the US from Trump voters who rely on Mexican agricultural labour. Yeah, crack down on all those illegals! Oh shit, who's going to harvest the produce crops? Which necessarily has a negative spillover effect on businesses that rely on farm income that is now shrinking. Gosh, it's almost as if there is an economic price to be paid for xenophobia when your economy has, to that point, relied on immigrant labour. It'd readjust in time, as people scale back expectations of what a good year looks like and businesses collapse and people lose their homes, but, hey, no more Mexican rapists!
End result, rents go up, landlords get richer, landlords buy more houses, house prices go up, Groundhog Day
Same shit here, too, tho Canada has a much larger population and available space. But the constant assumption on the part of the anti-immigration side that immigrants are not productive, that they'll just mooch, and they'll bring funny or sinister ideas that will destroy Canada. Never mind that it's a script that has been recited over and over in the past, the only difference being the immigrants that people want to keep out (Irish, Ukrainians, Jews, Chinese, Vietnamese, now Syrians). Doesn't matter that the dire predictions never come to pass—history began the moment they were born—the same fucking arguments rooted in bigotry (i.e., immigrants are sinister and lazy).
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

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