Michael Moore filming Donald Trump documentary Fahrenheit 11/9

Politics and other such topical creams.
Post Reply
BostonBeaneater
User avatar
Autonomous Insect Cyborg Sentinel
Posts: 6854
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 7:24pm
Location: Between the moon and New York City

Michael Moore filming Donald Trump documentary Fahrenheit 11/9

Post by BostonBeaneater » 17 May 2017, 12:30pm

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/m ... nheit-11-9

Image

This should have the same effect as Saving Christmas had on turning me into a conservative Christian.

Image
Image

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 71137
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Nerdo Crombezia
Contact:

Re: Michael Moore filming Donald Trump documentary Fahrenheit 11/9

Post by Dr. Medulla » 17 May 2017, 12:48pm

Yeah, like his other movies, the audience are people seeking confirmation of their views, rather than seeking to change anyone's mind. But then that describes most discourse coming from the left, right, and centre. One thing that was better in the past was the existence of public intellectuals seeking to engage and challenge; now discussion is about affirmation.
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

Flex
User avatar
Mechano-Man of the Future
Posts: 25026
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:50pm
Location: The Information Superhighway!
Contact:

Re: Michael Moore filming Donald Trump documentary Fahrenheit 11/9

Post by Flex » 17 May 2017, 12:53pm

Are there any stellar political documentaries out there that persuaded - or were even designed to persuade - people to realign their political beliefs?
"I live inside my own heart, Matt Damon." - Prince

Sous les pavés, la plage.

Pex Lives!

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 71137
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Nerdo Crombezia
Contact:

Re: Michael Moore filming Donald Trump documentary Fahrenheit 11/9

Post by Dr. Medulla » 17 May 2017, 1:01pm

Flex wrote:
17 May 2017, 12:53pm
Are there any stellar political documentaries out there that persuaded - or were even designed to persuade - people to realign their political beliefs?
Realignment is a pretty tall order, but moving people's positions on current events seems more doable. Not documentary, but the reporting out of Vietnam in the late 60s went a long way to turn the public against the war (the famous claim of LBJ that once Walter Cronkite turned against the war, the rest of middle America would follow). Did An Inconvenient Truth push more people towards accepting global warming?
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

Flex
User avatar
Mechano-Man of the Future
Posts: 25026
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:50pm
Location: The Information Superhighway!
Contact:

Re: Michael Moore filming Donald Trump documentary Fahrenheit 11/9

Post by Flex » 17 May 2017, 1:06pm

Criticizing Michael Moore for not doing news coverage from the Vietnam era seems like a pretty tough criticism of the guy.

Cursory examination doesn't suggest any significant bumps in (Americans, anyways) belief in global warming post-Inconvenient Truth that don't follow more general trendlines. But, I dunno, that's probably a sloppy way to try to measure the effect.
"I live inside my own heart, Matt Damon." - Prince

Sous les pavés, la plage.

Pex Lives!

Flex
User avatar
Mechano-Man of the Future
Posts: 25026
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:50pm
Location: The Information Superhighway!
Contact:

Re: Michael Moore filming Donald Trump documentary Fahrenheit 11/9

Post by Flex » 17 May 2017, 1:10pm

To be clear, I don't disagree with the basic criticism of the genre or landscape, it just seems odd to me to single out Moore for castigation for doing political documentary making. At least he's working in the service of more-or-less leftward principles.
"I live inside my own heart, Matt Damon." - Prince

Sous les pavés, la plage.

Pex Lives!

JennyB
User avatar
Clash Cuck
Posts: 15383
Joined: 16 Jun 2008, 1:13pm
Location: Moranjortsville

Re: Michael Moore filming Donald Trump documentary Fahrenheit 11/9

Post by JennyB » 17 May 2017, 1:14pm

And let's not forget Moore's best work: :shifty:
Image
Got a Rake? Sure!

IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M

Don't talk shop.

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 71137
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Nerdo Crombezia
Contact:

Re: Michael Moore filming Donald Trump documentary Fahrenheit 11/9

Post by Dr. Medulla » 17 May 2017, 2:24pm

Flex wrote:
17 May 2017, 1:10pm
To be clear, I don't disagree with the basic criticism of the genre or landscape, it just seems odd to me to single out Moore for castigation for doing political documentary making. At least he's working in the service of more-or-less leftward principles.
I'm not castigating him for making a documentary (this or any other). It certainly can't hurt anything and he is on the left side of liberalism. (Plus he's certainly earned his seat by being perceptive of the election results well in advance.) I just don't see his work as doing more than preaching to the choir. That may be partly his style but far more about the political culture that exists, which is quite insular.
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

Flex
User avatar
Mechano-Man of the Future
Posts: 25026
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:50pm
Location: The Information Superhighway!
Contact:

Re: Michael Moore filming Donald Trump documentary Fahrenheit 11/9

Post by Flex » 17 May 2017, 2:28pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
17 May 2017, 2:24pm
I'm not castigating him for making a documentary (this or any other). It certainly can't hurt anything and he is on the left side of liberalism. (Plus he's certainly earned his seat by being perceptive of the election results well in advance.) I just don't see his work as doing more than preaching to the choir. That may be partly his style but far more about the political culture that exists, which is quite insular.
The original premise of this thread was making fun of him for the failure of his documentaries to convert conservatives into liberals. I found that to be a weird thing to fixate on Michael Moore, particularly, for.
"I live inside my own heart, Matt Damon." - Prince

Sous les pavés, la plage.

Pex Lives!

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 71137
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Nerdo Crombezia
Contact:

Re: Michael Moore filming Donald Trump documentary Fahrenheit 11/9

Post by Dr. Medulla » 17 May 2017, 2:41pm

Flex wrote:
17 May 2017, 2:28pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
17 May 2017, 2:24pm
I'm not castigating him for making a documentary (this or any other). It certainly can't hurt anything and he is on the left side of liberalism. (Plus he's certainly earned his seat by being perceptive of the election results well in advance.) I just don't see his work as doing more than preaching to the choir. That may be partly his style but far more about the political culture that exists, which is quite insular.
The original premise of this thread was making fun of him for the failure of his documentaries to convert conservatives into liberals. I found that to be a weird thing to fixate on Michael Moore, particularly, for.
I certainly didn't mean to suggest that it was something specific to Moore. I've been pretty consistent the last few years in moping about self-imposed intellectual and political isolation.
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

Flex
User avatar
Mechano-Man of the Future
Posts: 25026
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:50pm
Location: The Information Superhighway!
Contact:

Re: Michael Moore filming Donald Trump documentary Fahrenheit 11/9

Post by Flex » 17 May 2017, 2:43pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
17 May 2017, 2:41pm
I certainly didn't mean to suggest that it was something specific to Moore. I've been pretty consistent the last few years in moping about self-imposed intellectual and political isolation.
I think you've discussed this book on here before, but this topic broadly reminds me of a recent interview discussing Amusing Ourselves to Death: https://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/ ... sion-media
"I live inside my own heart, Matt Damon." - Prince

Sous les pavés, la plage.

Pex Lives!

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 71137
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Nerdo Crombezia
Contact:

Re: Michael Moore filming Donald Trump documentary Fahrenheit 11/9

Post by Dr. Medulla » 17 May 2017, 2:58pm

Flex wrote:
17 May 2017, 2:43pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
17 May 2017, 2:41pm
I certainly didn't mean to suggest that it was something specific to Moore. I've been pretty consistent the last few years in moping about self-imposed intellectual and political isolation.
I think you've discussed this book on here before, but this topic broadly reminds me of a recent interview discussing Amusing Ourselves to Death: https://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/ ... sion-media
Thanks for passing this along! I read Postman back in the 90s when I was at the apex of my cultural populism and hated it. I'm sure I'd be a lot more receptive to his critique now (I read Boorstin during my diss research and thought it was snobbish, but not out of sync with mass cultural criticism). I might have to re-read Postman (and Debord for that matter). It's hard not to think that the mass cultural pessimists have earned a reconsideration in the past several months. My diss supervisor said that I was sounding like Adorno in the weeks after the US election, and while I'm not that far gone, I am more sympathetic to the pessimists. Strate's comment about a lack of time for reflection fits with Joseph Heath's chief point in Enlightenment 2.0—thinking is hard work that demands time. We may get information faster, but our ability to properly interpret it has not gotten faster and we do a disservice to rationalism by demanding instant and confident positions.
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

BostonBeaneater
User avatar
Autonomous Insect Cyborg Sentinel
Posts: 6854
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 7:24pm
Location: Between the moon and New York City

Re: Michael Moore filming Donald Trump documentary Fahrenheit 11/9

Post by BostonBeaneater » 17 May 2017, 5:13pm

Flex wrote:
17 May 2017, 2:28pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
17 May 2017, 2:24pm
I'm not castigating him for making a documentary (this or any other). It certainly can't hurt anything and he is on the left side of liberalism. (Plus he's certainly earned his seat by being perceptive of the election results well in advance.) I just don't see his work as doing more than preaching to the choir. That may be partly his style but far more about the political culture that exists, which is quite insular.
The original premise of this thread was making fun of him for the failure of his documentaries to convert conservatives into liberals. I found that to be a weird thing to fixate on Michael Moore, particularly, for.
I was more trying to point out that preaching to the converted really doesn't help or change anything. I think, in fact , that it only more deeply entrenches people's stubborn beliefs, right or left wing. We can either try and change people's minds or start killing each other, either way Michael Moore isn't helping.
Image

Flex
User avatar
Mechano-Man of the Future
Posts: 25026
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:50pm
Location: The Information Superhighway!
Contact:

Re: Michael Moore filming Donald Trump documentary Fahrenheit 11/9

Post by Flex » 17 May 2017, 5:23pm

BostonBeaneater wrote:
17 May 2017, 5:13pm
I was more trying to point out that preaching to the converted really doesn't help or change anything. I think, in fact , that it only more deeply entrenches people's stubborn beliefs, right or left wing. We can either try and change people's minds or start killing each other, either way Michael Moore isn't helping.
Activating people who agree with your basic positions can have tangible positive benefits. Inspiring voter turnout to defeat republicans, activating the base to support single payer healthcare, whatever. There's a larger structural problem with how discourse does and doesn't work in the information age, but there seems to be an obvious, tangible benefit to the kind of thing Moore does (or, at least, what he attempts to do. The movie could still just suck).
"I live inside my own heart, Matt Damon." - Prince

Sous les pavés, la plage.

Pex Lives!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests