The Trump observations thread

Politics and other such topical creams.
Mimi
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Mimi » 13 Nov 2017, 1:24pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
09 Nov 2017, 1:17pm
Flex wrote:
09 Nov 2017, 12:57pm
This story just makes me unbearably sad: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ers-215800
I saw that the other day and it made me wonder again about the viability of calling those supporters fascist of some strain. A lot of the elements are there—authoritarianism, anti-intellectualism, racism—but fascism (and communism) have previously been built on something fundamentally hopeful. That is, yes, right now you are being shit upon by the elites, but you are the real goodness and power of society, and together we can set things right in a new society. Both fascists and communists use that basic narrative. But what is it when you have voters who no longer have hope, no longer care whether a candidate is good (meaning capable and/or moral) but just want some kind of expression of or outlet for … what? They care enough to vote but is it a vote for some kind of nihilism? My world sucks and I want your world to suck, too? That goes beyond politics because there is no room to negotiate, no space to argue constructively.
Learned helplessness and willful ignorance. You don't just live there; you're entrenched there. The area is full of negative people.

I had a German professor in college who wasn't from the area tell me that he had never been in a place where the parents work so hard to discourage their kids from having a better life than they did.

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Dr. Medulla » 13 Nov 2017, 1:46pm

Mimi wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 1:24pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
09 Nov 2017, 1:17pm
Flex wrote:
09 Nov 2017, 12:57pm
This story just makes me unbearably sad: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ers-215800
I saw that the other day and it made me wonder again about the viability of calling those supporters fascist of some strain. A lot of the elements are there—authoritarianism, anti-intellectualism, racism—but fascism (and communism) have previously been built on something fundamentally hopeful. That is, yes, right now you are being shit upon by the elites, but you are the real goodness and power of society, and together we can set things right in a new society. Both fascists and communists use that basic narrative. But what is it when you have voters who no longer have hope, no longer care whether a candidate is good (meaning capable and/or moral) but just want some kind of expression of or outlet for … what? They care enough to vote but is it a vote for some kind of nihilism? My world sucks and I want your world to suck, too? That goes beyond politics because there is no room to negotiate, no space to argue constructively.
Learned helplessness and willful ignorance. You don't just live there; you're entrenched there. The area is full of negative people.

I had a German professor in college who wasn't from the area tell me that he had never been in a place where the parents work so hard to discourage their kids from having a better life than they did.
That is so depressing to consider. It's one thing for bitter experience to engender hopelessness, but to instill it in children as the frame for interpreting future experiences.

BTW, have you read Hillbilly Elegy? Just wondering if it rings true to you, having grown up in a somewhat similar environment.
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

Mimi
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Mimi » 13 Nov 2017, 1:51pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 1:46pm
Mimi wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 1:24pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
09 Nov 2017, 1:17pm
Flex wrote:
09 Nov 2017, 12:57pm
This story just makes me unbearably sad: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ers-215800
I saw that the other day and it made me wonder again about the viability of calling those supporters fascist of some strain. A lot of the elements are there—authoritarianism, anti-intellectualism, racism—but fascism (and communism) have previously been built on something fundamentally hopeful. That is, yes, right now you are being shit upon by the elites, but you are the real goodness and power of society, and together we can set things right in a new society. Both fascists and communists use that basic narrative. But what is it when you have voters who no longer have hope, no longer care whether a candidate is good (meaning capable and/or moral) but just want some kind of expression of or outlet for … what? They care enough to vote but is it a vote for some kind of nihilism? My world sucks and I want your world to suck, too? That goes beyond politics because there is no room to negotiate, no space to argue constructively.
Learned helplessness and willful ignorance. You don't just live there; you're entrenched there. The area is full of negative people.

I had a German professor in college who wasn't from the area tell me that he had never been in a place where the parents work so hard to discourage their kids from having a better life than they did.
That is so depressing to consider. It's one thing for bitter experience to engender hopelessness, but to instill it in children as the frame for interpreting future experiences.

BTW, have you read Hillbilly Elegy? Just wondering if it rings true to you, having grown up in a somewhat similar environment.
I have not read it, but it sounds interesting. I'll have to check it out of the libarry.

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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Dr. Medulla » 13 Nov 2017, 1:55pm

Mimi wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 1:51pm
I have not read it, but it sounds interesting. I'll have to check it out of the libarry.
Somewhat controversial account by a guy who made it out. Some say it calls for a more sympathetic regard for the rural poor, others that it confirms that it just means working hard and succeeding. If you do ebooks, I can help you out.
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Mimi
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Mimi » 13 Nov 2017, 2:05pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 1:55pm
Mimi wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 1:51pm
I have not read it, but it sounds interesting. I'll have to check it out of the libarry.
Somewhat controversial account by a guy who made it out. Some say it calls for a more sympathetic regard for the rural poor, others that it confirms that it just means working hard and succeeding. If you do ebooks, I can help you out.
There's a lot of distrust of people who've made it out. haha Even my own brother calls me "one of those educated ones." :shifty:

I'll see if I can find it in the library first. Still old fashioned and prefer physical books to digital.

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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Dr. Medulla » 13 Nov 2017, 3:26pm

Mimi wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 2:05pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 1:55pm
Mimi wrote:
13 Nov 2017, 1:51pm
I have not read it, but it sounds interesting. I'll have to check it out of the libarry.
Somewhat controversial account by a guy who made it out. Some say it calls for a more sympathetic regard for the rural poor, others that it confirms that it just means working hard and succeeding. If you do ebooks, I can help you out.
There's a lot of distrust of people who've made it out. haha Even my own brother calls me "one of those educated ones." :shifty:
Saskatchewan, especially the farm communities, kind of have the same attitude. B has observed that, yeah, they want kids to get a university education, but then come back and do the same old jobs as everyone else. A graduate degree is just making a fetish of things and thinking you're better than everyone else. A real education is engineering or agriculture. It's stuff like that that make me wonder, who's really pushing the idea that there's this division?
I'll see if I can find it in the library first. Still old fashioned and prefer physical books to digital.
I'm sure it's there—it was a left-field publishing success last year.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Dr. Medulla » 01 Dec 2017, 8:14am

Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

Mimi
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Mimi » 01 Dec 2017, 9:46am

OMG. Brilliant. Must have taken a lot of time to put it together.

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Dr. Medulla » 01 Dec 2017, 2:53pm

https://www.salon.com/2017/12/01/michae ... ald-trump/

The more humane desire is for Trump to resign but my desire for real justice has him having a massive stroke that leaves him a fully conscious shit and piss machine.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by JennyB » 01 Dec 2017, 3:24pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Dec 2017, 2:53pm
https://www.salon.com/2017/12/01/michae ... ald-trump/

The more humane desire is for Trump to resign but my desire for real justice has him having a massive stroke that leaves him a fully conscious shit and piss machine.
Yes! I keep saying how I want him to die of a massive coronary, but this is much better!
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Silent Majority
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Silent Majority » 01 Dec 2017, 6:09pm

Shame for Trump that nobody who's spent time with him would ever like him enough to play Oliver North.
'But also: hey dude, you can just go looking for more glasses. They're all free now. '

www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Dr. Medulla » 01 Dec 2017, 6:19pm

Silent Majority wrote:
01 Dec 2017, 6:09pm
Shame for Trump that nobody who's spent time with him would ever like him enough to play Oliver North.
Indeed, partly his personality and history of fucking people over and partly his outsider status in politics means that there is no reason for associates to go down with him. Even Nixon had diehards. Trump's narcissism means there can be no loyalty in the equation.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Dr. Medulla » 01 Dec 2017, 7:06pm

http://thechronicleherald.ca/world/1525 ... nn-filings

I also want Kushner in a federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison. I want deep family discord and I want that smug, entitled shitprick to know true terror about what might happen to him.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Silent Majority » 01 Dec 2017, 7:33pm

I'm still doubtful that this shit is going to topple Trump, but it looks likes its going to hurt him and I like that.
'But also: hey dude, you can just go looking for more glasses. They're all free now. '

www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Dr. Medulla » 01 Dec 2017, 7:46pm

Silent Majority wrote:
01 Dec 2017, 7:33pm
I'm still doubtful that this shit is going to topple Trump, but it looks likes its going to hurt him and I like that.
Excluding a fantasy stroke/coronary, I still think he'll resign and sooner than we think (my prediction of before the end of the year is still in play, but less likely). He's a stereotypical bully, which means he'll seek a way out rather than lose for all to see. He doesn't want the full details of his malfeasance out in the open and he'll try to cut a deal preserve that and to protect his family as much as possible. He didn't expect to win, his life's dream wasn't to be president, so this just isn't something that means more than anything else to him. Plus, his mental limitations don't help him deal with the building stress. The easy play is to find a way to quit.
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

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