The Future of the Democratic Party

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Flex
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Flex » 10 Nov 2016, 2:11pm

JennyB wrote:No mention of voter ID laws, I would imagine.
Yeah, no structural issues in turnout getting suppressed (although I'm sure she acknowledges vote ID laws, but that's outside the "poor white women betrayed feminism" narrative right now).
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Flex » 10 Nov 2016, 7:07pm

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by JennyB » 10 Nov 2016, 7:20pm

Flex wrote:This would be extremely good: https://newrepublic.com/minutes/138678/ ... th-ellison
Ellison is Muslim, too. I would LOVE this. The Trumpites would be furious.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by eumaas » 10 Nov 2016, 7:27pm

JennyB wrote:
Flex wrote:This would be extremely good: https://newrepublic.com/minutes/138678/ ... th-ellison
Ellison is Muslim, too. I would LOVE this. The Trumpites would be furious.
He also knew earlier than many that Trump could win big. And he's got the right analysis of the defeat. I think he could do well.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Dr. Medulla » 10 Nov 2016, 7:44pm

eumaas wrote:
JennyB wrote:
Flex wrote:This would be extremely good: https://newrepublic.com/minutes/138678/ ... th-ellison
Ellison is Muslim, too. I would LOVE this. The Trumpites would be furious.
He also knew earlier than many that Trump could win big. And he's got the right analysis of the defeat. I think he could do well.
Because he is a Muslim, it would also be a bold and defiant symbol, something the Democrats well need. Chickenshits don't get rewarded.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Rat Patrol » 10 Nov 2016, 9:24pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:
JennyB wrote:
Flex wrote:This would be extremely good: https://newrepublic.com/minutes/138678/ ... th-ellison
Ellison is Muslim, too. I would LOVE this. The Trumpites would be furious.
He also knew earlier than many that Trump could win big. And he's got the right analysis of the defeat. I think he could do well.
Because he is a Muslim, it would also be a bold and defiant symbol, something the Democrats well need. Chickenshits don't get rewarded.
You don't need to go for the symbolism. Ellison has big brass ones to begin with, and has never been afraid to swing them. Probably the closest "Young Bernie" potential there is if he finds his voice.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Dr. Medulla » 10 Nov 2016, 9:36pm

Rat Patrol wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:
JennyB wrote:
Flex wrote:This would be extremely good: https://newrepublic.com/minutes/138678/ ... th-ellison
Ellison is Muslim, too. I would LOVE this. The Trumpites would be furious.
He also knew earlier than many that Trump could win big. And he's got the right analysis of the defeat. I think he could do well.
Because he is a Muslim, it would also be a bold and defiant symbol, something the Democrats well need. Chickenshits don't get rewarded.
You don't need to go for the symbolism. Ellison has big brass ones to begin with, and has never been afraid to swing them. Probably the closest "Young Bernie" potential there is if he finds his voice.
Symbolism is part of narrative, and any effective opposition needs a counter-narrative, and boldly standing with a Muslim is strong means of establishing that counter-narrative.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by eumaas » 10 Nov 2016, 9:43pm

"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Flex » 10 Nov 2016, 9:44pm

Get these assholes out of the party right now and fucking shame them forever.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Dr. Medulla » 10 Nov 2016, 9:52pm

Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Rat Patrol » 10 Nov 2016, 10:19pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
Rat Patrol wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:
JennyB wrote: Ellison is Muslim, too. I would LOVE this. The Trumpites would be furious.
He also knew earlier than many that Trump could win big. And he's got the right analysis of the defeat. I think he could do well.
Because he is a Muslim, it would also be a bold and defiant symbol, something the Democrats well need. Chickenshits don't get rewarded.
You don't need to go for the symbolism. Ellison has big brass ones to begin with, and has never been afraid to swing them. Probably the closest "Young Bernie" potential there is if he finds his voice.
Symbolism is part of narrative, and any effective opposition needs a counter-narrative, and boldly standing with a Muslim is strong means of establishing that counter-narrative.
Ellison has never made that part of his narrative, though. Probably the only time he has brought it up has been smacking down fellow Reps in reply to some Islamophobic speech on the House floor. And a few of those times he was just trolling the shit out of them so their C-SPAN gambit backfired, like when he famously eviscerated Michelle Bachmann--representing the next MN district over from him--for the inanity of her viewpoints. He's never been an Obama all that concerned with symbolism. Ellison's much more an organizational tactician than aspiring Great Leader.

Symbolism is something that gets projected on him. Yeah, okay...inevitable. But be careful what you wish for, because a lot of that projected symbolism has been patronizing as hell. Dems--especially the more 'woke' contingent whose progressivism begins and ends at ID politics--haven't cloaked themselves in glory treating Ellison like their participation ribbon to hang on the wall. Oddly enough, going so overboard on the Muslim thing that it's almost completely forgotten that he's African-American. In some segments of the Democratic Party, this is an intentional stereotyping. He's Chair of the House Progressive Caucus and plays the Liz Warren agitator role on the House Financial Services Committee. The establishment used the identity politics pigeonholing to great effect to neuter him on Wall Street criticism. You think identity politics are any motivation for pursuing the DNC Chair job? Hell no...he's going for the jugular when the establishment is in tatters to mount a coup and tactical power grab for the Progressive Caucus so they can drive their agenda without continually getting slew-footed from within their own party. He's seeking to retrofit the machinery in a way that'll sustain a progressive movement. And would probably prefer not to be the face of a movement because identity politics are to some degree the slippery slope that have kept the likes of him at arm's length from imposing structural reform. Identity politics have perverted the Democratic Party to the point where it's a triangulation wedge playing keep-away from certain universal economic truths.

What other people think about symbolism is what other people think. It exists. But it's not Ellison's M.O. If anything he's going for the post- identity politics Democratic Party.
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by eumaas » 11 Nov 2016, 1:25am

http://nypost.com/2016/11/10/chelsea-cl ... -congress/

You stupid fuckers are constitutionally incapable of learning from your mistakes.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

eumaas
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by eumaas » 11 Nov 2016, 1:32am

eumaas wrote:http://nypost.com/2016/11/10/chelsea-cl ... -congress/

You stupid fuckers are constitutionally incapable of learning from your mistakes.
There must be a pdf named futureelectoralstrategy that gets passed around the establishment Dem people and it's just a copy of the "this is fine" meme with a checkmark next to it.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

eumaas
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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by eumaas » 11 Nov 2016, 9:44am

Even Schumer is backing Ellison. Maybe some of the establishment hacks know which way the wind is blowing.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: The Future of the Democratic Party

Post by Rat Patrol » 11 Nov 2016, 9:45am

eumaas wrote:Even Schumer is backing Ellison. Maybe some of the establishment hacks know which way the wind is blowing.
Schumer is an evil garbage human, but he didn't get where he is without a keen survival instinct. He's not stupid.
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