Star Wars

[Flex]

That's taking it at its most extreme interpretation.

If you're willing, would you explain its appeal to you and what it might mean for, say, pursuing anarchy.

[Wolter]

That's taking it at its most extreme interpretation.

If you're willing, would you explain its appeal to you and what it might mean for, say, pursuing anarchy.

It's not that it appeals to me, so much as it makes sense and seems to possibly be more right than wrong. But obviously, it's a deep time theory that will take decades of correct predictivity to be held as scientifically useful in any way.

[Flex]

It's not that it appeals to me, so much as it makes sense and seems to possibly be more right than wrong. But obviously, it's a deep time theory that will take decades of correct predictivity to be held as scientifically useful in any way.

If it turned out to be true, would you say it essentially clashes with any concept of anarchist principles being achievable? Would you resign yourself to the inability of man to move beyond a predictive pattern?

[Wolter]

It's not that it appeals to me, so much as it makes sense and seems to possibly be more right than wrong. But obviously, it's a deep time theory that will take decades of correct predictivity to be held as scientifically useful in any way.

If it turned out to be true, would you say it essentially clashes with any concept of anarchist principles being achievable? Would you resign yourself to the inability of man to move beyond a predictive pattern?

No, it would just be a matter of accepting that there are right times to move, and that gains would need to be made at certain times over others. It might, in many ways, make it easier to change society if anjy given group prepared for the possibility of being ready to advance agendas politically at certain times, militarily at others, and artistically at still others.

Again, I'm not saying it is unequivocally true. Just that it is solid enough to give some credence to it. In fact, I think the theory's main weakness is that Strauss and Howe apply some of their own generational biases to it to some extent, and their prescriptive ideas are rooted in centrist politics.

Also, it's less that events are predicted by this. Just national mood and how culture responds to external and internal events at given points on the saeculum.

[eumaas]

It's not that it appeals to me, so much as it makes sense and seems to possibly be more right than wrong. But obviously, it's a deep time theory that will take decades of correct predictivity to be held as scientifically useful in any way.

If it turned out to be true, would you say it essentially clashes with any concept of anarchist principles being achievable? Would you resign yourself to the inability of man to move beyond a predictive pattern?

No, it would just be a matter of accepting that there are right times to move, and that gains would need to be made at certain times over others. It might, in many ways, make it easier to change society if anjy given group prepared for the possibility of being ready to advance agendas politically at certain times, militarily at others, and artistically at still others.

Again, I'm not saying it is unequivocally true. Just that it is solid enough to give some credence to it. In fact, I think the theory's main weakness is that Strauss and Howe apply some of their own generational biases to it to some extent, and their prescriptive ideas are rooted in centrist politics.

Also, it's less that events are predicted by this. Just national mood and how culture responds to external and internal events at given points on the saeculum.

Well, that's less fatalistic at least.

I still don't understand the mechanism, though.

[Wolter]

It's not that it appeals to me, so much as it makes sense and seems to possibly be more right than wrong. But obviously, it's a deep time theory that will take decades of correct predictivity to be held as scientifically useful in any way.

If it turned out to be true, would you say it essentially clashes with any concept of anarchist principles being achievable? Would you resign yourself to the inability of man to move beyond a predictive pattern?

No, it would just be a matter of accepting that there are right times to move, and that gains would need to be made at certain times over others. It might, in many ways, make it easier to change society if anjy given group prepared for the possibility of being ready to advance agendas politically at certain times, militarily at others, and artistically at still others.

Again, I'm not saying it is unequivocally true. Just that it is solid enough to give some credence to it. In fact, I think the theory's main weakness is that Strauss and Howe apply some of their own generational biases to it to some extent, and their prescriptive ideas are rooted in centrist politics.

Also, it's less that events are predicted by this. Just national mood and how culture responds to external and internal events at given points on the saeculum.

Well, that's less fatalistic at least.

I still don't understand the mechanism, though.

The shortest, easiest explanation is: People are products of their environment throughout their lives, and tend to raise children in reaction to how they themselves were raised and their own perception of themselves and their surroundings (and the generations that surround them). There are four basic styles of generation that tend to cycle through history due to these influences. And depending on which generation is in elderhood, middle life, young adulthood, and childhood at any given time, the general societal reaction to events can be vastly different. So at each of these "Turnings" though similar events happen throughout history, the reaction will have a generational flavor.

[Flex]

It seems like this would be super easy to prove as true or not. Just start applying the theory to countries around the world and look at their histories. This model should work in Tibet, right?

[eumaas]

It seems like this would be super easy to prove as true or not. Just start applying the theory to countries around the world and look at their histories. This model should work in Tibet, right?

Tibet is an unusual case due to the present of an entrance to the Hollow Earth guarded by Chinese Shaolin monks in cooperation with the Lamaist hierarchy.

[Flex]

It seems like this would be super easy to prove as true or not. Just start applying the theory to countries around the world and look at their histories. This model should work in Tibet, right?

Tibet is an unusual case due to the present of an entrance to the Hollow Earth guarded by Chinese Shaolin monks in cooperation with the Lamaist hierarchy.

Ah yes, the old "hollow earth variable." Confounding social scientists for centuries.

[Wolter]

It seems like this would be super easy to prove as true or not. Just start applying the theory to countries around the world and look at their histories. This model should work in Tibet, right?

To an extent yes. And they actually admit that their research was Anglo-America-centric and would need more examples to be ultimately useful. However, in their 1988 book Generations they made some tentative predictions about the 1990s that were pretty dead on in hindsight, so there has been very mild supporting evidence.

Honestly, it's worth actually reading this from the source to some extent. Getting it clumsily summarized from me is not doing it much justice.


Note on Topic:

There's a pretty interesting bit on story archetypes in the book The Fourth Turning that mentions Star Wars among other examples showing that the generational constellations are consistent among most of the more enduring myths.

The Star Wars example (as an Heroic Quest) states that Obi-Wan, Han Solo, and Luke Skywalker each (given the characters assumed ages) fit the Prophet (Boomer, Missionary), Nomad (Gen X, Lost) and Hero (GI, Millennial [if they are right]) generational pattern.

It's more detailed than that, and I could probably supply many more examples if I weren't focused on other things, but it was fascinating food for thought, if nothing else.

[rcs]

i have not seen any SW movies... thank you

[Wolter]

i have not seen any SW movies... thank you

Of course you haven't. Talkies are a fad.

[eumaas]

i have not seen any SW movies... thank you

Of course you haven't. Talkies are a fad.

I only attend Greek drama as performed in amphitheatres.

[rcs]

i have not seen any SW movies... thank you

Of course you haven't. Talkies are a fad.

like pet rocks, mood rings, and home PCs

[Wolter]

i have not seen any SW movies... thank you

Of course you haven't. Talkies are a fad.

I only attend Greek drama as performed in amphitheatres.

I'll get the leather phallus, you bring the enormous Euripedes mask.