All of it requires, I think, a different kind of reading, appreciating immediacy and scenes rather than fretting about meta implications (which fuels cynicism about how it'll all be reversed so who cares?). It was different when I was a kid because there was less history, fewer titles, so maintaining a continuum was more feasible, so what happened did matter. Meta was encouraged, and it did make things special. People who piss and moan about comics today are oblivious to how different reading comics were in the 1940s and 1950s, that Marvel changed reading of the medium so damned much. And it's been changing again. Likewise people who complain about darkness and negativity (and I fall into this camp more than I'd like). It's reflective of how our culture is regarding heroism and institutions. If comics are more dark and cynical, it's not that the writers are (necessarily) trying to be edgy, but rather that's the dominant mood. The comics of the 1960s that everyone valourizes are the product of an America that was optimistic and believed it could solve any problem. Thinking socially rather than in terms of an autonomous artist and reader allows us to just go with the flow rather than whine that comics creators nowadays just piss on everything.Kory wrote: ↑12 Aug 2019, 5:57pmYeah, it's just something you get used to as a fan of something like this. I do appreciate the attempt to maintain continuity on a larger level (yes, Scott was once melded with Apocalypse and this gets brought up in conversation from time to time), but yeah, if you don't make big retcon decisions like this once in a while, you're just playing the greatest hits over and over again, as I mentioned above. And what does anyone get out of that? To me, something like Nightcrawler getting killed during Second Coming wasn't important because he was actually dead forever (I mean nobody is going to let that stick and we all knew it), it was important because of HOW it was written, especially Logan's very touching reaction to it and how that contributed to his schism with Cyke. And then, Logan's reaction once Kurt was resurrected. We all knew he would be, it's just a matter of how well that's portrayed rather than whether the death sticks to continuity by being permanent.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Aug 2019, 4:50pmIs anything safely long run anymore? Continuity only lasts as long as the current creative team. New team, new #1, what's happened in the past is applied only as much as is wanted. I'm not complaining about this, mind you, as actively maintaining continuity over so many decades is a creative straitjacket. But it does necessarily blunt "big changes" because we now know that everything can be reversed and most things will be.Kory wrote: ↑12 Aug 2019, 4:21pmI've been reading a lot about how a lot of great artists and writers will jump on board the X-Men and mostly just play the greatest hits. Whereas now, you could make the argument that somebody is adding something new to the mythos that isn't just keeping the title plugging along with no real direction. I'm excited for Hickman's run because it seems like the changes he's going to make are going to stick in the long run, which has been a problem for maybe the past decade.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Aug 2019, 2:58pmI check out the John Byrne board every once in awhile to see what bitterness he (and they) are spewing. There's a thread about that, which, of course, is about how appalled they are, proof of how creatively bankrupt Marvel is, etc etc. Constant carping about comics today.Kory wrote: ↑12 Aug 2019, 1:28pmI have to talk about this since House of X #2 came out. It contains perhaps the biggest retcon in the history of the franchise and for anyone who wants to talk about it maybe we can do it elsewhere but I had to say something because I can't contain it any longer. Spoiler below:
Moira is a mutant whose power is reincarnation in the same year of her original birth. She regenerates with all knowledge of her previous life in the same timeline, and can then experiment with different life choices to change the timeline. The storyline of the X-Men we've been reading since the '60s is her TENTH life, in which she has kept her power completely secret!!! Holy crap. I'm not sure what to think about this but it's massive news.
Flex and Wolter's Den of Nerdly Awesomeness
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Re: Flex and Wolter's Den of Nerdly Awesomeness
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: Flex and Wolter's Den of Nerdly Awesomeness
I think there's a lot of selective ignorance on the part of people complaining about the darkness too—there's plenty of bright stuff out there, people just want to overlook it for whatever reasons. Waid's Daredevil, Squirrel GIrl, Deadpool, Wolverine & the X-Men, and Mr. & Mrs. X are some semi-recent examples of writers and artists being more lighthearted.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Aug 2019, 6:15pmAll of it requires, I think, a different kind of reading, appreciating immediacy and scenes rather than fretting about meta implications (which fuels cynicism about how it'll all be reversed so who cares?). It was different when I was a kid because there was less history, fewer titles, so maintaining a continuum was more feasible, so what happened did matter. Meta was encouraged, and it did make things special. People who piss and moan about comics today are oblivious to how different reading comics were in the 1940s and 1950s, that Marvel changed reading of the medium so damned much. And it's been changing again. Likewise people who complain about darkness and negativity (and I fall into this camp more than I'd like). It's reflective of how our culture is regarding heroism and institutions. If comics are more dark and cynical, it's not that the writers are (necessarily) trying to be edgy, but rather that's the dominant mood. The comics of the 1960s that everyone valourizes are the product of an America that was optimistic and believed it could solve any problem. Thinking socially rather than in terms of an autonomous artist and reader allows us to just go with the flow rather than whine that comics creators nowadays just piss on everything.Kory wrote: ↑12 Aug 2019, 5:57pmYeah, it's just something you get used to as a fan of something like this. I do appreciate the attempt to maintain continuity on a larger level (yes, Scott was once melded with Apocalypse and this gets brought up in conversation from time to time), but yeah, if you don't make big retcon decisions like this once in a while, you're just playing the greatest hits over and over again, as I mentioned above. And what does anyone get out of that? To me, something like Nightcrawler getting killed during Second Coming wasn't important because he was actually dead forever (I mean nobody is going to let that stick and we all knew it), it was important because of HOW it was written, especially Logan's very touching reaction to it and how that contributed to his schism with Cyke. And then, Logan's reaction once Kurt was resurrected. We all knew he would be, it's just a matter of how well that's portrayed rather than whether the death sticks to continuity by being permanent.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Aug 2019, 4:50pmIs anything safely long run anymore? Continuity only lasts as long as the current creative team. New team, new #1, what's happened in the past is applied only as much as is wanted. I'm not complaining about this, mind you, as actively maintaining continuity over so many decades is a creative straitjacket. But it does necessarily blunt "big changes" because we now know that everything can be reversed and most things will be.Kory wrote: ↑12 Aug 2019, 4:21pmI've been reading a lot about how a lot of great artists and writers will jump on board the X-Men and mostly just play the greatest hits. Whereas now, you could make the argument that somebody is adding something new to the mythos that isn't just keeping the title plugging along with no real direction. I'm excited for Hickman's run because it seems like the changes he's going to make are going to stick in the long run, which has been a problem for maybe the past decade.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Aug 2019, 2:58pm
I check out the John Byrne board every once in awhile to see what bitterness he (and they) are spewing. There's a thread about that, which, of course, is about how appalled they are, proof of how creatively bankrupt Marvel is, etc etc. Constant carping about comics today.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: Flex and Wolter's Den of Nerdly Awesomeness
Right. And it ignores how dark 60s Marvel was compared to DC at the time. Spider-man's appeal was being a miserable hero. The FF were always splitting up. The public hated the X-Men. What it really comes down to is that people idealize "their" comics from a specific period and get angry that they can't read comics like they did when they were thirteen. I get it—I can read comics from when I was ten or so and it triggers memories and pleasure like today's comics can't. But that's not on today's creators—it's on me for not being ten anymore. We age, our world changes, so do comics. Duh. I'm not a fan of the Marvel movies, but I don't blame them for not measuring up to how my imagination interacts with the comics. They aren't an insult or anything; they just aren't how I've created comics in my head.Kory wrote: ↑12 Aug 2019, 6:20pmI think there's a lot of selective ignorance on the part of people complaining about the darkness too—there's plenty of bright stuff out there, people just want to overlook it for whatever reasons. Waid's Daredevil, Squirrel GIrl, Deadpool, Wolverine & the X-Men, and Mr. & Mrs. X are some semi-recent examples of writers and artists being more lighthearted.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Aug 2019, 6:15pmAll of it requires, I think, a different kind of reading, appreciating immediacy and scenes rather than fretting about meta implications (which fuels cynicism about how it'll all be reversed so who cares?). It was different when I was a kid because there was less history, fewer titles, so maintaining a continuum was more feasible, so what happened did matter. Meta was encouraged, and it did make things special. People who piss and moan about comics today are oblivious to how different reading comics were in the 1940s and 1950s, that Marvel changed reading of the medium so damned much. And it's been changing again. Likewise people who complain about darkness and negativity (and I fall into this camp more than I'd like). It's reflective of how our culture is regarding heroism and institutions. If comics are more dark and cynical, it's not that the writers are (necessarily) trying to be edgy, but rather that's the dominant mood. The comics of the 1960s that everyone valourizes are the product of an America that was optimistic and believed it could solve any problem. Thinking socially rather than in terms of an autonomous artist and reader allows us to just go with the flow rather than whine that comics creators nowadays just piss on everything.Kory wrote: ↑12 Aug 2019, 5:57pmYeah, it's just something you get used to as a fan of something like this. I do appreciate the attempt to maintain continuity on a larger level (yes, Scott was once melded with Apocalypse and this gets brought up in conversation from time to time), but yeah, if you don't make big retcon decisions like this once in a while, you're just playing the greatest hits over and over again, as I mentioned above. And what does anyone get out of that? To me, something like Nightcrawler getting killed during Second Coming wasn't important because he was actually dead forever (I mean nobody is going to let that stick and we all knew it), it was important because of HOW it was written, especially Logan's very touching reaction to it and how that contributed to his schism with Cyke. And then, Logan's reaction once Kurt was resurrected. We all knew he would be, it's just a matter of how well that's portrayed rather than whether the death sticks to continuity by being permanent.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑12 Aug 2019, 4:50pmIs anything safely long run anymore? Continuity only lasts as long as the current creative team. New team, new #1, what's happened in the past is applied only as much as is wanted. I'm not complaining about this, mind you, as actively maintaining continuity over so many decades is a creative straitjacket. But it does necessarily blunt "big changes" because we now know that everything can be reversed and most things will be.Kory wrote: ↑12 Aug 2019, 4:21pm
I've been reading a lot about how a lot of great artists and writers will jump on board the X-Men and mostly just play the greatest hits. Whereas now, you could make the argument that somebody is adding something new to the mythos that isn't just keeping the title plugging along with no real direction. I'm excited for Hickman's run because it seems like the changes he's going to make are going to stick in the long run, which has been a problem for maybe the past decade.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- Flex
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Re: Flex and Wolter's Den of Nerdly Awesomeness
Awesome:
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
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Re: Flex and Wolter's Den of Nerdly Awesomeness
Hey, Jughead, maybe you should re-evaluate your hamburger obsession in terms of factory farming and environmental impact, you weird beanie-wearing freak.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: Flex and Wolter's Den of Nerdly Awesomeness
Is Mark critiquing how capitalism forces people to perform anti-social acts to survive, or is he just a racist who excuses criminal conduct when it's a white guy? The mama cat with her cub in her mouth has a lot to think about.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: Flex and Wolter's Den of Nerdly Awesomeness
Hey, what was that really nerdy YouTube guy who reviewed watchmen? We made fun of him here and said that he was going to grow up to be Wolter. It’s been like ten years so I want to see if that has come true.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
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Re: Flex and Wolter's Den of Nerdly Awesomeness
Hey everybody, we're all gonna get laid!
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: Flex and Wolter's Den of Nerdly Awesomeness
Yesterday, I acquired and skimmed thru Blake Bell's wonderful book on Ditko. His strict Randian principles fascinates for being so bat shit, but looking at all the examples of his art was like finding it new. When I was a kid, I didn't think much of Ditko's Spider-man. It seemed crude compared Romita and especially Andru—"my" Spider-man artist—because they seemed cleaner, more realistic. But there's such expressiveness in Ditko's characters, their bodies so fluid, so limber. Something very cinematic. Perhaps heretical to say, but I prefer Ditko's style to Kirby's because Ditko suggested more emotion and movement, more humanity. Kirby was, duh, much better at portraying gods. Anyway, crazy man was crazy good artist.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: Flex and Wolter's Den of Nerdly Awesomeness
I have this one, it's got a lot of great art examples—he was a crazy good character designer (plus there's a page or two about my beloved Speedball). Sorry about the size, it was the only decent image I could find:Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Aug 2019, 9:12am
Yesterday, I acquired and skimmed thru Blake Bell's wonderful book on Ditko. His strict Randian principles fascinates for being so bat shit, but looking at all the examples of his art was like finding it new. When I was a kid, I didn't think much of Ditko's Spider-man. It seemed crude compared Romita and especially Andru—"my" Spider-man artist—because they seemed cleaner, more realistic. But there's such expressiveness in Ditko's characters, their bodies so fluid, so limber. Something very cinematic. Perhaps heretical to say, but I prefer Ditko's style to Kirby's because Ditko suggested more emotion and movement, more humanity. Kirby was, duh, much better at portraying gods. Anyway, crazy man was crazy good artist.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
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Re: Flex and Wolter's Den of Nerdly Awesomeness
Amazing that a guy so straight-laced and hostile to the counterculture produced some seriously trippy art. Such an odd person.Kory wrote: ↑26 Aug 2019, 2:44pmI have this one, it's got a lot of great art examples—he was a crazy good character designer (plus there's a page or two about my beloved Speedball). Sorry about the size, it was the only decent image I could find:Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Aug 2019, 9:12amhttps://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... 3,200_.jpg
Yesterday, I acquired and skimmed thru Blake Bell's wonderful book on Ditko. His strict Randian principles fascinates for being so bat shit, but looking at all the examples of his art was like finding it new. When I was a kid, I didn't think much of Ditko's Spider-man. It seemed crude compared Romita and especially Andru—"my" Spider-man artist—because they seemed cleaner, more realistic. But there's such expressiveness in Ditko's characters, their bodies so fluid, so limber. Something very cinematic. Perhaps heretical to say, but I prefer Ditko's style to Kirby's because Ditko suggested more emotion and movement, more humanity. Kirby was, duh, much better at portraying gods. Anyway, crazy man was crazy good artist.
https://www.idwpublishing.com/wp-conten ... hed-pr.jpg
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: Flex and Wolter's Den of Nerdly Awesomeness
He didn't need drugs because that stuff was already in his brain. I guess he didn't realize that everybody wasn't like that.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑26 Aug 2019, 2:55pmAmazing that a guy so straight-laced and hostile to the counterculture produced some seriously trippy art. Such an odd person.Kory wrote: ↑26 Aug 2019, 2:44pmI have this one, it's got a lot of great art examples—he was a crazy good character designer (plus there's a page or two about my beloved Speedball). Sorry about the size, it was the only decent image I could find:Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Aug 2019, 9:12amhttps://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... 3,200_.jpg
Yesterday, I acquired and skimmed thru Blake Bell's wonderful book on Ditko. His strict Randian principles fascinates for being so bat shit, but looking at all the examples of his art was like finding it new. When I was a kid, I didn't think much of Ditko's Spider-man. It seemed crude compared Romita and especially Andru—"my" Spider-man artist—because they seemed cleaner, more realistic. But there's such expressiveness in Ditko's characters, their bodies so fluid, so limber. Something very cinematic. Perhaps heretical to say, but I prefer Ditko's style to Kirby's because Ditko suggested more emotion and movement, more humanity. Kirby was, duh, much better at portraying gods. Anyway, crazy man was crazy good artist.
https://www.idwpublishing.com/wp-conten ... hed-pr.jpg
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: Flex and Wolter's Den of Nerdly Awesomeness
Further weirdness is that psychedelics fueled the hippie notion that reality is whatever you want it to be. Which is the polar opposite of Randian objectivist beliefs.Kory wrote: ↑26 Aug 2019, 3:04pmHe didn't need drugs because that stuff was already in his brain. I guess he didn't realize that everybody wasn't like that.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑26 Aug 2019, 2:55pmAmazing that a guy so straight-laced and hostile to the counterculture produced some seriously trippy art. Such an odd person.Kory wrote: ↑26 Aug 2019, 2:44pmI have this one, it's got a lot of great art examples—he was a crazy good character designer (plus there's a page or two about my beloved Speedball). Sorry about the size, it was the only decent image I could find:Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Aug 2019, 9:12amhttps://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... 3,200_.jpg
Yesterday, I acquired and skimmed thru Blake Bell's wonderful book on Ditko. His strict Randian principles fascinates for being so bat shit, but looking at all the examples of his art was like finding it new. When I was a kid, I didn't think much of Ditko's Spider-man. It seemed crude compared Romita and especially Andru—"my" Spider-man artist—because they seemed cleaner, more realistic. But there's such expressiveness in Ditko's characters, their bodies so fluid, so limber. Something very cinematic. Perhaps heretical to say, but I prefer Ditko's style to Kirby's because Ditko suggested more emotion and movement, more humanity. Kirby was, duh, much better at portraying gods. Anyway, crazy man was crazy good artist.
https://www.idwpublishing.com/wp-conten ... hed-pr.jpg
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: Flex and Wolter's Den of Nerdly Awesomeness
I'd read the Dr. Strange vs. Ayn Rand issue. Especially if Rintrah is involved.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑26 Aug 2019, 3:10pmFurther weirdness is that psychedelics fueled the hippie notion that reality is whatever you want it to be. Which is the polar opposite of Randian objectivist beliefs.Kory wrote: ↑26 Aug 2019, 3:04pmHe didn't need drugs because that stuff was already in his brain. I guess he didn't realize that everybody wasn't like that.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑26 Aug 2019, 2:55pmAmazing that a guy so straight-laced and hostile to the counterculture produced some seriously trippy art. Such an odd person.Kory wrote: ↑26 Aug 2019, 2:44pmI have this one, it's got a lot of great art examples—he was a crazy good character designer (plus there's a page or two about my beloved Speedball). Sorry about the size, it was the only decent image I could find:Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Aug 2019, 9:12amhttps://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... 3,200_.jpg
Yesterday, I acquired and skimmed thru Blake Bell's wonderful book on Ditko. His strict Randian principles fascinates for being so bat shit, but looking at all the examples of his art was like finding it new. When I was a kid, I didn't think much of Ditko's Spider-man. It seemed crude compared Romita and especially Andru—"my" Spider-man artist—because they seemed cleaner, more realistic. But there's such expressiveness in Ditko's characters, their bodies so fluid, so limber. Something very cinematic. Perhaps heretical to say, but I prefer Ditko's style to Kirby's because Ditko suggested more emotion and movement, more humanity. Kirby was, duh, much better at portraying gods. Anyway, crazy man was crazy good artist.
https://www.idwpublishing.com/wp-conten ... hed-pr.jpg
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: Flex and Wolter's Den of Nerdly Awesomeness
I'm picturing them squaring off, magic energy coming from Strange's amulet and Rand's dollar pin. Strange would win, tho, by getting a bunch of welfare parasites to distract her.Kory wrote: ↑26 Aug 2019, 3:31pmI'd read the Dr. Strange vs. Ayn Rand issue. Especially if Rintrah is involved.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑26 Aug 2019, 3:10pmFurther weirdness is that psychedelics fueled the hippie notion that reality is whatever you want it to be. Which is the polar opposite of Randian objectivist beliefs.Kory wrote: ↑26 Aug 2019, 3:04pmHe didn't need drugs because that stuff was already in his brain. I guess he didn't realize that everybody wasn't like that.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑26 Aug 2019, 2:55pmAmazing that a guy so straight-laced and hostile to the counterculture produced some seriously trippy art. Such an odd person.Kory wrote: ↑26 Aug 2019, 2:44pm
I have this one, it's got a lot of great art examples—he was a crazy good character designer (plus there's a page or two about my beloved Speedball). Sorry about the size, it was the only decent image I could find:
https://www.idwpublishing.com/wp-conten ... hed-pr.jpg
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft