Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

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eumaas wrote:I got a B on a paper! First time I've ever gotten a B on a paper. So weird.
What the hell? What were the comments to justify that?
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:I got a B on a paper! First time I've ever gotten a B on a paper. So weird.
What the hell? What were the comments to justify that?
It was a paper on men and women in the Waste Land, and my thesis was fairly ambitious as I was tying that to the mythic background of the poem. But it was supposed to be only 1000 words, so I had to cut it down (and still only got it down to 1200 or so), and apparently those cuts made it seem like I was deviating from the topic. Which made me think, "What?" but I've figured out that by topic he meant essay prompt. I also had lower marks on my midterm for being similarly ambitious--drawing on stuff not mentioned in class--so I guess I should've picked a more mundane thesis and just hammered that home. But I wanted to say something more interesting.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

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Re: Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

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I believe the paper had too much of the mythic background stuff and not enough time spent on the concrete instances of male-female relationships. But I felt that the mythic was within the ambit of the essay prompt because he also recommended (and reserved at the library for us!) an essay by Cleanth Brooks on the mythic elements of the Waste Land. So that's a bit confusing.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

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Re: Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

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eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:I got a B on a paper! First time I've ever gotten a B on a paper. So weird.
What the hell? What were the comments to justify that?
It was a paper on men and women in the Waste Land, and my thesis was fairly ambitious as I was tying that to the mythic background of the poem. But it was supposed to be only 1000 words, so I had to cut it down (and still only got it down to 1200 or so), and apparently those cuts made it seem like I was deviating from the topic. Which made me think, "What?" but I've figured out that by topic he meant essay prompt. I also had lower marks on my midterm for being similarly ambitious--drawing on stuff not mentioned in class--so I guess I should've picked a more mundane thesis and just hammered that home. But I wanted to say something more interesting.
Okay, I see. I think I've mentioned before that the undergrad degree is more about discipline (well, so is the post-grad, but of a different type) rather than creativity. So you may well have been evaluated by your failure to follow the rules and expectations for the assignment. For 99% of the class, that's vital, that's who it's addressing. It stinks that if you're more concerned about your grades, you're going to have, well, conform downward to the expectations. I'd suggest that if you have more ambitious ideas than assignments suggest, double-check with the instructor or TA beforehand. If I know about student plans in advance, I can steer them away from iffy ideas, but I'm also more receptive to left-field stuff when it's not a surprise, when I know that the student has read the assignment and is not just being flaky.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

Post by eumaas »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:I got a B on a paper! First time I've ever gotten a B on a paper. So weird.
What the hell? What were the comments to justify that?
It was a paper on men and women in the Waste Land, and my thesis was fairly ambitious as I was tying that to the mythic background of the poem. But it was supposed to be only 1000 words, so I had to cut it down (and still only got it down to 1200 or so), and apparently those cuts made it seem like I was deviating from the topic. Which made me think, "What?" but I've figured out that by topic he meant essay prompt. I also had lower marks on my midterm for being similarly ambitious--drawing on stuff not mentioned in class--so I guess I should've picked a more mundane thesis and just hammered that home. But I wanted to say something more interesting.
Okay, I see. I think I've mentioned before that the undergrad degree is more about discipline (well, so is the post-grad, but of a different type) rather than creativity. So you may well have been evaluated by your failure to follow the rules and expectations for the assignment. For 99% of the class, that's vital, that's who it's addressing. It stinks that if you're more concerned about your grades, you're going to have, well, conform downward to the expectations. I'd suggest that if you have more ambitious ideas than assignments suggest, double-check with the instructor or TA beforehand. If I know about student plans in advance, I can steer them away from iffy ideas, but I'm also more receptive to left-field stuff when it's not a surprise, when I know that the student has read the assignment and is not just being flaky.
Yeah, I get it. I mean, I would've checked if I had thought it was outside the ambit of the topic, but I wish he hadn't recommended the damn Brooks essay if he didn't want to see any of that in the paper! Also, I understand the 1000-word limit for the sake of grading, but man, writing a short paper on the Waste Land, especially with something as broad as the relationships between men and women, seems difficult for anybody who is by habit a close reader (as I am). I imagine if one had limited the paper for the sake of length to only a couple relationships depicted in the poem, one would've gotten points docked as well. Seems tricky.

I'm going to stick to class-only material when it comes to the final exam. Hopefully still get an A out of the course.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

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Re: Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

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eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:I got a B on a paper! First time I've ever gotten a B on a paper. So weird.
What the hell? What were the comments to justify that?
It was a paper on men and women in the Waste Land, and my thesis was fairly ambitious as I was tying that to the mythic background of the poem. But it was supposed to be only 1000 words, so I had to cut it down (and still only got it down to 1200 or so), and apparently those cuts made it seem like I was deviating from the topic. Which made me think, "What?" but I've figured out that by topic he meant essay prompt. I also had lower marks on my midterm for being similarly ambitious--drawing on stuff not mentioned in class--so I guess I should've picked a more mundane thesis and just hammered that home. But I wanted to say something more interesting.
Okay, I see. I think I've mentioned before that the undergrad degree is more about discipline (well, so is the post-grad, but of a different type) rather than creativity. So you may well have been evaluated by your failure to follow the rules and expectations for the assignment. For 99% of the class, that's vital, that's who it's addressing. It stinks that if you're more concerned about your grades, you're going to have, well, conform downward to the expectations. I'd suggest that if you have more ambitious ideas than assignments suggest, double-check with the instructor or TA beforehand. If I know about student plans in advance, I can steer them away from iffy ideas, but I'm also more receptive to left-field stuff when it's not a surprise, when I know that the student has read the assignment and is not just being flaky.
Yeah, I get it. I mean, I would've checked if I had thought it was outside the ambit of the topic, but I wish he hadn't recommended the damn Brooks essay if he didn't want to see any of that in the paper! Also, I understand the 1000-word limit for the sake of grading, but man, writing a short paper on the Waste Land, especially with something as broad as the relationships between men and women, seems difficult for anybody who is by habit a close reader (as I am). I imagine if one had limited the paper for the sake of length to only a couple relationships depicted in the poem, one would've gotten points docked as well. Seems tricky.

I'm going to stick to class-only material when it comes to the final exam. Hopefully still get an A out of the course.
Are you inclined to appeal your grade? My rule is that I'll only listen to appeals if the student comes prepared with an argument, complete with evidence, as to why I underestimated the quality of the work (i.e., "I worked really hard" isn't an argument). Here's the thing you need to know about graders: we hate dealing with appeals and usually offer a bump of a half-letter grade just to dispose of the matter. (Under the same rationale, graders avoid high plus grades, like a 69 or 79, because it encourages appeals to get bumped to the next letter range. Grading is more psychology than straight math.) So if you appeal and mention the Brooks piece, that might be sufficient to get an increase. Explaining what you were trying to do, perhaps armed with your initial draft, would also help. But it depends on the open-mindedness of the grader.

edit: Just as an aside about grading for anyone still going to university or will be. Students seem to love grading rubrics because it breaks down where they lost marks. Rubrics suck, tho, and it's not to your benefit. I had to grade for a prof once who employed a rubric and there were several papers that I knew were A's, but the breakdown of the rubric—this is worth this many marks, that's worth that many—meant they got a lower grade. It handcuffs the grader.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

eumaas
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Re: Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

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Dr. Medulla wrote:Are you inclined to appeal your grade? My rule is that I'll only listen to appeals if the student comes prepared with an argument, complete with evidence, as to why I underestimated the quality of the work (i.e., "I worked really hard" isn't an argument). Here's the thing you need to know about graders: we hate dealing with appeals and usually offer a bump of a half-letter grade just to dispose of the matter. (Under the same rationale, graders avoid high plus grades, like a 69 or 79, because it encourages appeals to get bumped to the next letter range. Grading is more psychology than straight math.) So if you appeal and mention the Brooks piece, that might be sufficient to get an increase. Explaining what you were trying to do, perhaps armed with your initial draft, would also help. But it depends on the open-mindedness of the grader.
Man, I've never been a grade grubber. I did talk to him briefly after class but didn't ask him to change it, just said I had cut it down and that was probably why it didn't work as well for him. I really enjoy his class (it's on 20th century poetry, and that is my wheelhouse), and I don't want to seem like I'm just interested in a grade. Also, my other classes seem to be certain As, so I don't know that an A- or a B would be that bad a thing in the end, especially given I'm just looking to complete my degree.

The course is graded on five things:
1. First paper--got an A
2. Midterm exam--he marked me as A-/B+
3. Second Paper--B
4. Final exam
5. Participation

I do very well on participation I think. My comments are usually met with approval, and I tend to mention stuff other people don't. Also, for the Waste Land, he asked me to bring my tarot deck to class to pass around to other students. I went the extra mile and brought along three Grail romances (Chretien de Troyes, Parzival, and Quest of the Holy Grail from the Prose Vulgate), and I did a little presentation for class on the tarot and the Grail romances. So if I ace the final, given my participation, I may still do well. Although I expressed dislike for Robert Frost, so maybe that would count against me.

I think it's funny that I'm probably the only contest-winning, published poet (and avowed modernist) in the class, and I might not get a full A!

I would prefer not to sweat it just out of principle, you know? It irks me, but it's also kind of humorous to me.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

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eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:Are you inclined to appeal your grade? My rule is that I'll only listen to appeals if the student comes prepared with an argument, complete with evidence, as to why I underestimated the quality of the work (i.e., "I worked really hard" isn't an argument). Here's the thing you need to know about graders: we hate dealing with appeals and usually offer a bump of a half-letter grade just to dispose of the matter. (Under the same rationale, graders avoid high plus grades, like a 69 or 79, because it encourages appeals to get bumped to the next letter range. Grading is more psychology than straight math.) So if you appeal and mention the Brooks piece, that might be sufficient to get an increase. Explaining what you were trying to do, perhaps armed with your initial draft, would also help. But it depends on the open-mindedness of the grader.
Man, I've never been a grade grubber. I did talk to him briefly after class but didn't ask him to change it, just said I had cut it down and that was probably why it didn't work as well for him. I really enjoy his class (it's on 20th century poetry, and that is my wheelhouse), and I don't want to seem like I'm just interested in a grade. Also, my other classes seem to be certain As, so I don't know that an A- or a B would be that bad a thing in the end, especially given I'm just looking to complete my degree.

The course is graded on five things:
1. First paper--got an A
2. Midterm exam--he marked me as A-/B+
3. Second Paper--B
4. Final exam
5. Participation

I do very well on participation I think. My comments are usually met with approval, and I tend to mention stuff other people don't. Also, for the Waste Land, he asked me to bring my tarot deck to class to pass around to other students. I went the extra mile and brought along three Grail romances (Chretien de Troyes, Parzival, and Quest of the Holy Grail from the Prose Vulgate), and I did a little presentation for class on the tarot and the Grail romances. So if I ace the final, given my participation, I may still do well. Although I expressed dislike for Robert Frost, so maybe that would count against me.

I think it's funny that I'm probably the only contest-winning, published poet (and avowed modernist) in the class, and I might not get a full A!

I would prefer not to sweat it just out of principle, you know? It irks me, but it's also kind of humorous to me.
I appreciate not wanting to appeal a grade. I did it once as an undergrad and I still feel red-faced about it (because 1. it was unjustified; and 2. I so didn't deserve it). Participation tends to count more than what the actual syllabus says because it sticks out in the person's memory and non-participation is living death for an instructor. I literally tell my class when I get silence, "You guy are killin' me." So even if you get full marks on participation, when it comes time to figuring out the final grade, he might bump you up a bit overall based on that. Again, there's a psychological element—if you stand out as assisting discussion, that counts for so damned much. If you get an A on the final and A or A+ on participation, you'll get an A in the class.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

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Dr. Medulla wrote:I appreciate not wanting to appeal a grade. I did it once as an undergrad and I still feel red-faced about it (because 1. it was unjustified; and 2. I so didn't deserve it). Participation tends to count more than what the actual syllabus says because it sticks out in the person's memory and non-participation is living death for an instructor. I literally tell my class when I get silence, "You guy are killin' me." So even if you get full marks on participation, when it comes time to figuring out the final grade, he might bump you up a bit overall based on that. Again, there's a psychological element—if you stand out as assisting discussion, that counts for so damned much. If you get an A on the final and A or A+ on participation, you'll get an A in the class.
Yeah. I've only ever grade-grubbed once, and that was just because my teacher had made a mistake in marking my attendance--a binary right/wrong situation not dependent on interpretation.

I feel like I'd spoil my chances on the participation grade by appealing the paper grade.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

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eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:I appreciate not wanting to appeal a grade. I did it once as an undergrad and I still feel red-faced about it (because 1. it was unjustified; and 2. I so didn't deserve it). Participation tends to count more than what the actual syllabus says because it sticks out in the person's memory and non-participation is living death for an instructor. I literally tell my class when I get silence, "You guy are killin' me." So even if you get full marks on participation, when it comes time to figuring out the final grade, he might bump you up a bit overall based on that. Again, there's a psychological element—if you stand out as assisting discussion, that counts for so damned much. If you get an A on the final and A or A+ on participation, you'll get an A in the class.
Yeah. I've only ever grade-grubbed once, and that was just because my teacher had made a mistake in marking my attendance--a binary right/wrong situation not dependent on interpretation.

I feel like I'd spoil my chances on the participation grade by appealing the paper grade.
If that's your interpretation of the grader's demeanour, it's for the best. Nevertheless, it's worthwhile knowing that markers are conflict-averse pussies. It's a pain in the ass when there's other shit to be done, so concession is almost always on the horizon.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:Are you inclined to appeal your grade? My rule is that I'll only listen to appeals if the student comes prepared with an argument, complete with evidence, as to why I underestimated the quality of the work (i.e., "I worked really hard" isn't an argument). Here's the thing you need to know about graders: we hate dealing with appeals and usually offer a bump of a half-letter grade just to dispose of the matter. (Under the same rationale, graders avoid high plus grades, like a 69 or 79, because it encourages appeals to get bumped to the next letter range. Grading is more psychology than straight math.) So if you appeal and mention the Brooks piece, that might be sufficient to get an increase. Explaining what you were trying to do, perhaps armed with your initial draft, would also help. But it depends on the open-mindedness of the grader.
Man, I've never been a grade grubber. I did talk to him briefly after class but didn't ask him to change it, just said I had cut it down and that was probably why it didn't work as well for him. I really enjoy his class (it's on 20th century poetry, and that is my wheelhouse), and I don't want to seem like I'm just interested in a grade. Also, my other classes seem to be certain As, so I don't know that an A- or a B would be that bad a thing in the end, especially given I'm just looking to complete my degree.

The course is graded on five things:
1. First paper--got an A
2. Midterm exam--he marked me as A-/B+
3. Second Paper--B
4. Final exam
5. Participation

I do very well on participation I think. My comments are usually met with approval, and I tend to mention stuff other people don't. Also, for the Waste Land, he asked me to bring my tarot deck to class to pass around to other students. I went the extra mile and brought along three Grail romances (Chretien de Troyes, Parzival, and Quest of the Holy Grail from the Prose Vulgate), and I did a little presentation for class on the tarot and the Grail romances. So if I ace the final, given my participation, I may still do well. Although I expressed dislike for Robert Frost, so maybe that would count against me.

I think it's funny that I'm probably the only contest-winning, published poet (and avowed modernist) in the class, and I might not get a full A!

I would prefer not to sweat it just out of principle, you know? It irks me, but it's also kind of humorous to me.
I appreciate not wanting to appeal a grade. I did it once as an undergrad and I still feel red-faced about it (because 1. it was unjustified; and 2. I so didn't deserve it). Participation tends to count more than what the actual syllabus says because it sticks out in the person's memory and non-participation is living death for an instructor. I literally tell my class when I get silence, "You guy are killin' me." So even if you get full marks on participation, when it comes time to figuring out the final grade, he might bump you up a bit overall based on that. Again, there's a psychological element—if you stand out as assisting discussion, that counts for so damned much. If you get an A on the final and A or A+ on participation, you'll get an A in the class.
I wish you were my teacher.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

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Kory wrote:I wish you were my teacher.
Apple polisher. You'll get yours. :shifty:
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
Kory wrote:I wish you were my teacher.
Apple polisher. You'll get yours. :shifty:
Teacher, you forgot to assign us homework.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

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Re: Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

Post by Flex »

One of my first, terrible, school memories is this teacher I had (first grade probably?) who sometimes used to ask a random student to pick what subject we'd get for homework. I hated math at the time (still a weak area for me to this day), and I was called at one point to pick the homework subject. Thinking I'd take anything but math, I decided to pick a subject that I'd heard the word of but didn't know what it meant. So, thinking myself clever for avoiding the hated subject of math, I politely requested that our homework for the evening be "arithmetic." When I received the evening's homework, I was unpleasantly surprised.

Anyways, I guess where I'm going with this is it was all Kory's fault somehow.
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Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
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Re: Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

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Kory wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
Kory wrote:I wish you were my teacher.
Apple polisher. You'll get yours. :shifty:
Teacher, you forgot to assign us homework.
Thank you, Kory. For that, no homework for you. Everyone else, read chapters 5–13 of America: Nuclear Missile of Liberty for tomorrow. I'm going to go out for a drink now for the next fifteen minutes. I'll be locking the classroom door.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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