Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School

[Flex]

Not my story, but The Boss'. In one of her current classes, she has a young woman who is, seemingly, on the spectrum, as they say. She's really friendly, but in a way that blows thru all normal social conventions. Next to no filter. So, today, while talking about geographical place names and how indigenous people have worked to change names they consider offensive, one example was places that use the word "squaw." This woman just blurts out, not understanding the word's meaning, "Is it like cunt?" The room goes the kind of silent where everyone knows what they all heard but no one wants to acknowledge it. The woman, figuring it out, says, "Oh, right, time and place." Then a few seconds later, "But I can say cunt because I'm a woman, right?" The Boss said that this probably isn't the right context for that kind of discussion and tries to untip the canoe. To be clear, tho, The Boss loves this person because she's so unambiguously dorky and sincere, no malice whatsoever to her—those social rules just completely elude her.

The Boss's internal monologue as the events above unfold: I'm going to relay this story to Hooky and I just KNOW the first thing he'll ask is whether I "untipped the canoe" *internal groan*

[Dr. Medulla]

Not my story, but The Boss'. In one of her current classes, she has a young woman who is, seemingly, on the spectrum, as they say. She's really friendly, but in a way that blows thru all normal social conventions. Next to no filter. So, today, while talking about geographical place names and how indigenous people have worked to change names they consider offensive, one example was places that use the word "squaw." This woman just blurts out, not understanding the word's meaning, "Is it like cunt?" The room goes the kind of silent where everyone knows what they all heard but no one wants to acknowledge it. The woman, figuring it out, says, "Oh, right, time and place." Then a few seconds later, "But I can say cunt because I'm a woman, right?" The Boss said that this probably isn't the right context for that kind of discussion and tries to untip the canoe. To be clear, tho, The Boss loves this person because she's so unambiguously dorky and sincere, no malice whatsoever to her—those social rules just completely elude her.

The Boss's internal monologue as the events above unfold: I'm going to relay this story to Hooky and I just KNOW the first thing he'll ask is whether I "untipped the canoe" *internal groan*

I'll have you know that "uptip the canoe" was my own phrase and interpretation of her describing trying to get this back on track. Tho she did endorse my phrasing. Harumph!

[gkbill]

Not my story, but The Boss'. In one of her current classes, she has a young woman who is, seemingly, on the spectrum, as they say. She's really friendly, but in a way that blows thru all normal social conventions. Next to no filter. So, today, while talking about geographical place names and how indigenous people have worked to change names they consider offensive, one example was places that use the word "squaw." This woman just blurts out, not understanding the word's meaning, "Is it like cunt?" The room goes the kind of silent where everyone knows what they all heard but no one wants to acknowledge it. The woman, figuring it out, says, "Oh, right, time and place." Then a few seconds later, "But I can say cunt because I'm a woman, right?" The Boss said that this probably isn't the right context for that kind of discussion and tries to untip the canoe. To be clear, tho, The Boss loves this person because she's so unambiguously dorky and sincere, no malice whatsoever to her—those social rules just completely elude her.

Hello,

Yet another opportunity to teach the young people.

[Dr. Medulla]

A question I'll be asking my students tomorrow, drawing from a conversation I had with the Boss and an anecdote I've found fascinating. The anecdote: After completing his second term as president, Thomas Jefferson returned to Monticello, where, apart from raping slaves, he founded the University of Virginia. His original desire was to make it a non-degree-granting institution, so that the people who came to study did so for noble motives—to learn, not acquire credentials.

I've occasionally shared that with students, mostly to tell them not to focus on their grade because it tends to work itself out. Those who are there to embrace the experience, to be challenged and all that, do well, while those who make minimal effort … don't. Which is to say, focusing on the minutia doesn't help you if you're chasing grades while it can impede actually learning and enjoying the work.

So, the question is this: If you went into a class and on the first day were told, don't worry, you get an A, how would you approach the course from that point on? My hunch is that people would put less and less effort in, but not because they're lazy or conniving, but that they'd apply time that would have been devoted to this class to classes where the grade is to be determined. The only proper test is if that's their only class or all their classes have that assurance. If you were a student and were offered a guaranteed A, how would you treat the class?

[gkbill]

A question I'll be asking my students tomorrow, drawing from a conversation I had with the Boss and an anecdote I've found fascinating. The anecdote: After completing his second term as president, Thomas Jefferson returned to Monticello, where, apart from raping slaves, he founded the University of Virginia. His original desire was to make it a non-degree-granting institution, so that the people who came to study did so for noble motives—to learn, not acquire credentials.

I've occasionally shared that with students, mostly to tell them not to focus on their grade because it tends to work itself out. Those who are there to embrace the experience, to be challenged and all that, do well, while those who make minimal effort … don't. Which is to say, focusing on the minutia doesn't help you if you're chasing grades while it can impede actually learning and enjoying the work.

So, the question is this: If you went into a class and on the first day were told, don't worry, you get an A, how would you approach the course from that point on? My hunch is that people would put less and less effort in, but not because they're lazy or conniving, but that they'd apply time that would have been devoted to this class to classes where the grade is to be determined. The only proper test is if that's their only class or all their classes have that assurance. If you were a student and were offered a guaranteed A, how would you treat the class?

Hello,

How I would do depends on the class - if I have an interest in the material, I'll do well regarding learning regardless of grade and spend as much time as appropriate. If I think the material is shallow (or worse, pretentious), I will do as little as possible. Your point about managing time is well-taken. When advising students, I'll suggest a lighter course to compliment a heavy book/lab class. Someone here (Flex?) went to Hampshire College where grades are narratives rather than A-B-C-D-F. They may have a better perspective.

[Dr. Medulla]

A question I'll be asking my students tomorrow, drawing from a conversation I had with the Boss and an anecdote I've found fascinating. The anecdote: After completing his second term as president, Thomas Jefferson returned to Monticello, where, apart from raping slaves, he founded the University of Virginia. His original desire was to make it a non-degree-granting institution, so that the people who came to study did so for noble motives—to learn, not acquire credentials.

I've occasionally shared that with students, mostly to tell them not to focus on their grade because it tends to work itself out. Those who are there to embrace the experience, to be challenged and all that, do well, while those who make minimal effort … don't. Which is to say, focusing on the minutia doesn't help you if you're chasing grades while it can impede actually learning and enjoying the work.

So, the question is this: If you went into a class and on the first day were told, don't worry, you get an A, how would you approach the course from that point on? My hunch is that people would put less and less effort in, but not because they're lazy or conniving, but that they'd apply time that would have been devoted to this class to classes where the grade is to be determined. The only proper test is if that's their only class or all their classes have that assurance. If you were a student and were offered a guaranteed A, how would you treat the class?

Hello,

How I would do depends on the class - if I have an interest in the material, I'll do well regarding learning regardless of grade and spend as much time as appropriate. If I think the material is shallow (or worse, pretentious), I will do as little as possible. Your point about managing time is well-taken.

That would be my perspective, as well. If my intellectual curiosity is being sparked, I'm all in because I know that what I put in affects what I get out of it. Hell, given that I'm probably done teaching, I'm thinking about auditing some classes next year.

Someone here (Flex?) went to Hampshire College where grades are narratives rather than A-B-C-D-F. They may have a better perspective.

Like Evergreen in Washington? I had a classmate in Iowa who went to Evergreen. Students emerged not with a transcript but personalized assessments of every class. The grad director told me they hated getting applicants from Evergreen because they could be quickly assessed and either rejected or put aside for further consideration. On the fact of it, that's superior and more true, but demands on time make it a pain in the ass.

[revbob]

[
Hello,

How I would do depends on the class - if I have an interest in the material, I'll do well regarding learning regardless of grade and spend as much time as appropriate. If I think the material is shallow (or worse, pretentious), I will do as little as possible. Your point about managing time is well-taken. When advising students, I'll suggest a lighter course to compliment a heavy book/lab class. Someone here (Flex?) went to Hampshire College where grades are narratives rather than A-B-C-D-F. They may have a better perspective.

Yeah it would depend if it was a class where I had to do a lot of reading and writing on shit i didn't care about and would never use Id put 0 effort. Anything I was interested or needed to know/understand I sometimes feel Icould do better as it allows you to really take in the material sometimes instead of taking copius notes and worrying about what will be on the exam.

[Flex]

Yeah, I'm the Hampshire guy. It's not a perfect test case because, you know, you still had to pass the class in order to get your degree but it's designed for people to be "self motivating" so, yeah, you kinda get out what you put in (also, I think I've said this before but if you think getting a C or whatever sucks, trying getting a length written review of why you only got the equivalent of a C in a course. Not for the faint of heart, necessarily). I remember reading about there was an especially high freshman dropout rate as people think they're going somewhere to just slack off and then realize, no, a lot of people here are really interested in learning. But once you get through that, most people stuck through all four years at a good clip. Personally, I found it really motivating. You were always encouraged to kind of go where your interests took you and you were surrounded by people who really wanted to learn for the sake of it. There are downsides to Hampshire, but from that perspective it was a really wonderful environment. And as someone who wanted to learn, being given freedom just meant I wanted more.

The classes were all pretty unique too. I can't even recall what my math and sciences freshman class required classes were except they were a unique, multi-disciplinary approach so you're pretty much always taking courses that will be of interest to you. If I just had to take, I dunno, calculus and chemistry or whatever and had the option of basically fucking off for the whole thing I'd probably have done it.

I do remember one music history course I took where a component was you had to try to learn and play an old time instrument at a few jam sessions, but the professor wasn't tracking who participated in that portion. Trying to learn an instrument on my own was too daunting for me and I quickly gave it up and just basically skipped that portion of the class requirement. Only time I can remember doing something like that for any of my time there, though.

[Dr. Medulla]

Yeah, I'm the Hampshire guy. It's not a perfect test case because, you know, you still had to pass the class in order to get your degree but it's designed for people to be "self motivating" so, yeah, you kinda get out what you put in (also, I think I've said this before but if you think getting a C or whatever sucks, trying getting a length written review of why you only got the equivalent of a C in a course. Not for the faint of heart, necessarily).

How long were these reviews? What was the content like? In seminars, where there's a final paper/project rather than an exam, my summary comments deal with both the paper and the whole term. I only write a couple paragraphs for the course summary, mind you.

[Flex]

Yeah, I'm the Hampshire guy. It's not a perfect test case because, you know, you still had to pass the class in order to get your degree but it's designed for people to be "self motivating" so, yeah, you kinda get out what you put in (also, I think I've said this before but if you think getting a C or whatever sucks, trying getting a length written review of why you only got the equivalent of a C in a course. Not for the faint of heart, necessarily).

How long were these reviews? What was the content like? In seminars, where there's a final paper/project rather than an exam, my summary comments deal with both the paper and the whole term. I only write a couple paragraphs for the course summary, mind you.

Well, like your seminars, there are no written exams at Hampshire. Sometimes other ways to conclude courses, but usually lots of written papers and a final paper or project in each class. So you have that, and then you have something that ranges between a few paragraphs and maybe a page or two about how you did in the class (I think. it's been, you know, like a decade and half since i've looked at any of this stuff). They're all very small class sized to encourage discussion and participating. so you can engage with the prof in various ways, but the class time + papers is the most obvious way for them to get a sense of what you're taking from and bringing to the course.

[Dr. Medulla]

Yeah, I'm the Hampshire guy. It's not a perfect test case because, you know, you still had to pass the class in order to get your degree but it's designed for people to be "self motivating" so, yeah, you kinda get out what you put in (also, I think I've said this before but if you think getting a C or whatever sucks, trying getting a length written review of why you only got the equivalent of a C in a course. Not for the faint of heart, necessarily).

How long were these reviews? What was the content like? In seminars, where there's a final paper/project rather than an exam, my summary comments deal with both the paper and the whole term. I only write a couple paragraphs for the course summary, mind you.

Well, like your seminars, there are no written exams at Hampshire. Sometimes other ways to conclude courses, but usually lots of written papers and a final paper or project in each class. So you have that, and then you have something that ranges between a few paragraphs and maybe a page or two about how you did in the class (I think. it's been, you know, like a decade and half since i've looked at any of this stuff). They're all very small class sized to encourage discussion and participating. so you can engage with the prof in various ways, but the class time + papers is the most obvious way for them to get a sense of what you're taking from and bringing to the course.

Did the profs put real effort into those evals—at least from what you could tell—and was it meaningful to you, either as a student or a person? What I mean is that that stuff sounds really valuable—a qualitative evaluation instead of a quantitative one, something personal and human—but does it have a beneficial effect going forward?

[Flex]

Yeah, I'm the Hampshire guy. It's not a perfect test case because, you know, you still had to pass the class in order to get your degree but it's designed for people to be "self motivating" so, yeah, you kinda get out what you put in (also, I think I've said this before but if you think getting a C or whatever sucks, trying getting a length written review of why you only got the equivalent of a C in a course. Not for the faint of heart, necessarily).

How long were these reviews? What was the content like? In seminars, where there's a final paper/project rather than an exam, my summary comments deal with both the paper and the whole term. I only write a couple paragraphs for the course summary, mind you.

Well, like your seminars, there are no written exams at Hampshire. Sometimes other ways to conclude courses, but usually lots of written papers and a final paper or project in each class. So you have that, and then you have something that ranges between a few paragraphs and maybe a page or two about how you did in the class (I think. it's been, you know, like a decade and half since i've looked at any of this stuff). They're all very small class sized to encourage discussion and participating. so you can engage with the prof in various ways, but the class time + papers is the most obvious way for them to get a sense of what you're taking from and bringing to the course.

Did the profs put real effort into those evals—at least from what you could tell—and was it meaningful to you, either as a student or a person? What I mean is that that stuff sounds really valuable—a qualitative evaluation instead of a quantitative one, something personal and human—but does it have a beneficial effect going forward?

Yeah, all the profs took it pretty seriously and so did most of the students. The feedback helped me think about how I was learning and where there were more opportunities to engage with material in certain ways (and sometimes nice affirmations that work I was doing was evident in how I showed up and whatnot). I won't say any specific evaluation stands out in my mind to this day, but they were definitely part of the experience of learning how to learn.

[Dr. Medulla]

Yeah, I'm the Hampshire guy. It's not a perfect test case because, you know, you still had to pass the class in order to get your degree but it's designed for people to be "self motivating" so, yeah, you kinda get out what you put in (also, I think I've said this before but if you think getting a C or whatever sucks, trying getting a length written review of why you only got the equivalent of a C in a course. Not for the faint of heart, necessarily).

How long were these reviews? What was the content like? In seminars, where there's a final paper/project rather than an exam, my summary comments deal with both the paper and the whole term. I only write a couple paragraphs for the course summary, mind you.

Well, like your seminars, there are no written exams at Hampshire. Sometimes other ways to conclude courses, but usually lots of written papers and a final paper or project in each class. So you have that, and then you have something that ranges between a few paragraphs and maybe a page or two about how you did in the class (I think. it's been, you know, like a decade and half since i've looked at any of this stuff). They're all very small class sized to encourage discussion and participating. so you can engage with the prof in various ways, but the class time + papers is the most obvious way for them to get a sense of what you're taking from and bringing to the course.

Did the profs put real effort into those evals—at least from what you could tell—and was it meaningful to you, either as a student or a person? What I mean is that that stuff sounds really valuable—a qualitative evaluation instead of a quantitative one, something personal and human—but does it have a beneficial effect going forward?

Yeah, all the profs took it pretty seriously and so did most of the students. The feedback helped me think about how I was learning and where there were more opportunities to engage with material in certain ways (and sometimes nice affirmations that work I was doing was evident in how I showed up and whatnot). I won't say any specific evaluation stands out in my mind to this day, but they were definitely part of the experience of learning how to learn.

Cool and thanks for the info. I always write a lot of feedback on everything, but it's all but impossible to know whether it's even read let alone beneficial. Sometimes it feels like an act of conscience, assuaging my own concerns that I'm not slacking my responsibilities.

[Dr. Medulla]

I came up with a fun(?) little game that I'm going to play on my syllabus for my upcoming course this summer. Instead of clearly spelling out what the lectures are about, I'm going to be vague and use some wordplay that refers to the content (this was inspired by Mad Men's habit of its previews being random clips that didn't really give a hint about what was to come). Part of it is just me wanting to play around with some of the norms in a summer class, but I'm also curious if that affects attendance. If you don't know what a lecture is about, are you more or less inclined to skip?

Anyway, here's a few of the tentative titles for lectures on a course about the US in the 70s. Any guesses about their focus?
The Scar
The Flood and its Aftermath
The Power of the Duck
Dylan’s Advice
Broke
The Bunker
Whips and Cardigans
The Tumour
Jane Goes to Hollywood

[revbob]

I came up with a fun(?) little game that I'm going to play on my syllabus for my upcoming course this summer. Instead of clearly spelling out what the lectures are about, I'm going to be vague and use some wordplay that refers to the content (this was inspired by Mad Men's habit of its previews being random clips that didn't really give a hint about what was to come). Part of it is just me wanting to play around with some of the norms in a summer class, but I'm also curious if that affects attendance. If you don't know what a lecture is about, are you more or less inclined to skip?

Anyway, here's a few of the tentative titles for lectures on a course about the US in the 70s. Any guesses about their focus?
The Scar
The Flood and its Aftermath
The Power of the Duck
Dylan’s Advice
Broke
The Bunker
Whips and Cardigans
The Tumour
Jane Goes to Hollywood

What would you normally have named them? In the meantime put me down for the ones in bold, I'll probably sleep in for the others.