Rock n Roll Trivia Challenge 2014: Micky Dolenz' Revenge!

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Marky Dread
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Re: Rock n Roll Trivia Challenge 2014: Micky Dolenz' Revenge!

Post by Marky Dread » 14 Sep 2017, 12:24pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 11:48am
Marky Dread wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 11:18am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 10:54am
Marky Dread wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 10:37am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 6:33am


And that's again where punk mostly mixes that commercial purpose up. As a rule, punk bands didn't expect to get radio play (some didn't want it), so the 45 is just about getting something out there as cheaply as possible to what's going to be a tiny audience.
I'm not really sure that the punk bands didn't want success (I'm talking about the UK bands here) as they all got some to some degree. If your message is wort hearing then you need all the media outlets to get it across to as many people as possible. The punk attitudes of not caring if your record only sells one copy was just good talk at the time. The bands here that sold little were just not that good really. I think this rule applies far better to the post punk bands who were not afraid to mix up the musical formula with new ideas/sounds.
No, I'm not saying punk bands didn't want success, just not success measured in the same way that "mainstream" bands did/do. The goal isn't the mansion and swimming pool and supermodels and hanging out with Hollywood stars. Pressing 1000 45's and selling 900 and being able to gig regularly can be a huge success for a punk band, whereas not reaching the Top 40 would be a huge flop to a run-of-the-mill pop star. The scale of expectation is quite distinct.
Oh yeah sure I understood your original posts meaning. Here in the UK all the better bands The Clash/Pistols/Jam/Buzzcocks/Stranglers/Genreration X/Damned etc all had a great measure of success. With the Buzzcocks independent "Spiral Scratch EP" ended up with more repressings than being on a major. I get how hip it was to deny the champagne and swimming pool lifestyle of the previous generations huge stadium rock bands and bring the music a little closer to home. Howver every young punk grows old and into marriage/home ownership etc ect ect. Most of that first wave of UK punk are wealthy now.
Which does raise the question of whether making all that cash means an artist is still a punk or is their a loophole if they don't doggedly pursue it. But that's a whole other can of worms.
It's punk's and other rebellious art forms which use the media biggest paradox. Can you exist of your own merrit without holding out your hand to those of big corporate companies.
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Rock n Roll Trivia Challenge 2014: Micky Dolenz' Revenge!

Post by Dr. Medulla » 14 Sep 2017, 12:33pm

Marky Dread wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:24pm
It's punk's and other rebellious art forms which use the media biggest paradox. Can you exist of your own merrit without holding out your hand to those of big corporate companies.
Which is a big and recurring question I have for my rock seminar: can rebellious art meaningfully exist within a profit-driven model? I've grown more and more cynical on that question as I age. Or at least the successes are always deeply compromised and indirect, limited to perhaps inspiring others to dissent in more significant ways. But overall, no, capitalism loves selling us rebellion that doesn't really challenge structural controls.
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

Marky Dread
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Re: Rock n Roll Trivia Challenge 2014: Micky Dolenz' Revenge!

Post by Marky Dread » 14 Sep 2017, 12:47pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:33pm
Marky Dread wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:24pm
It's punk's and other rebellious art forms which use the media biggest paradox. Can you exist of your own merrit without holding out your hand to those of big corporate companies.
Which is a big and recurring question I have for my rock seminar: can rebellious art meaningfully exist within a profit-driven model? I've grown more and more cynical on that question as I age. Or at least the successes are always deeply compromised and indirect, limited to perhaps inspiring others to dissent in more significant ways. But overall, no, capitalism loves selling us rebellion that doesn't really challenge structural controls.
The above post is exactly how I feel now. As a rebellious young man I simply couldn't see it as being that simple. The need to rebel against something considered worthwhile is in most of us. But it was all small potatoes compared to the real issues of wealthy human beings keeping their neighbours in starving conditions.

"He who fucks nuns will later join the church" I think we are all members anyway like it or not, it just takes time for the realization to set in.

This subject would indeed make a superb book.
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Rock n Roll Trivia Challenge 2014: Micky Dolenz' Revenge!

Post by Dr. Medulla » 14 Sep 2017, 12:55pm

Marky Dread wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:47pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:33pm
Marky Dread wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:24pm
It's punk's and other rebellious art forms which use the media biggest paradox. Can you exist of your own merrit without holding out your hand to those of big corporate companies.
Which is a big and recurring question I have for my rock seminar: can rebellious art meaningfully exist within a profit-driven model? I've grown more and more cynical on that question as I age. Or at least the successes are always deeply compromised and indirect, limited to perhaps inspiring others to dissent in more significant ways. But overall, no, capitalism loves selling us rebellion that doesn't really challenge structural controls.
The above post is exactly how I feel now. As a rebellious young man I simply couldn't see it as being that simple. The need to rebel against something considered worthwhile is in most of us. But it was all small potatoes compared to the real issues of wealthy human beings keeping their neighbours in starving conditions.

"He who fucks nuns will later join the church" I think we are all members anyway like it or not, it just takes time for the realization to set in.

This subject would indeed make a superb book.
Plenty of good writing about that, altho most rooted in Marxist despair (and dreary to read). Something more approachable is this: https://thebaffler.com/salvos/alternative-to-what

My class is reading this for tomorrow as part of some introductory pieces. I expect the most push back on that one because it is pretty damned negative.
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

Marky Dread
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Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Rock n Roll Trivia Challenge 2014: Micky Dolenz' Revenge!

Post by Marky Dread » 14 Sep 2017, 1:10pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:55pm
Marky Dread wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:47pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:33pm
Marky Dread wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:24pm
It's punk's and other rebellious art forms which use the media biggest paradox. Can you exist of your own merrit without holding out your hand to those of big corporate companies.
Which is a big and recurring question I have for my rock seminar: can rebellious art meaningfully exist within a profit-driven model? I've grown more and more cynical on that question as I age. Or at least the successes are always deeply compromised and indirect, limited to perhaps inspiring others to dissent in more significant ways. But overall, no, capitalism loves selling us rebellion that doesn't really challenge structural controls.
The above post is exactly how I feel now. As a rebellious young man I simply couldn't see it as being that simple. The need to rebel against something considered worthwhile is in most of us. But it was all small potatoes compared to the real issues of wealthy human beings keeping their neighbours in starving conditions.

"He who fucks nuns will later join the church" I think we are all members anyway like it or not, it just takes time for the realization to set in.

This subject would indeed make a superb book.
Plenty of good writing about that, altho most rooted in Marxist despair (and dreary to read). Something more approachable is this: https://thebaffler.com/salvos/alternative-to-what

My class is reading this for tomorrow as part of some introductory pieces. I expect the most push back on that one because it is pretty damned negative.
An excellent read and thanks for posting that. Many of us find the lure of being rebellious too attracting from a perspective of appearing cool. Wearing that t-shirt that says look how different I am to you as I know who the cool rock band is. Not realising that some poor souls sweated their guts out to feed their famillies on a pittance. Others just like to dress the part and feel they are part of some revolution. Go on protest marches for the right cause (I'm talking about myself here) but then one man dies from police brutality and it all becomes completely worthless.
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Rock n Roll Trivia Challenge 2014: Micky Dolenz' Revenge!

Post by Dr. Medulla » 14 Sep 2017, 1:14pm

Marky Dread wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 1:10pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:55pm
Marky Dread wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:47pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:33pm
Marky Dread wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:24pm
It's punk's and other rebellious art forms which use the media biggest paradox. Can you exist of your own merrit without holding out your hand to those of big corporate companies.
Which is a big and recurring question I have for my rock seminar: can rebellious art meaningfully exist within a profit-driven model? I've grown more and more cynical on that question as I age. Or at least the successes are always deeply compromised and indirect, limited to perhaps inspiring others to dissent in more significant ways. But overall, no, capitalism loves selling us rebellion that doesn't really challenge structural controls.
The above post is exactly how I feel now. As a rebellious young man I simply couldn't see it as being that simple. The need to rebel against something considered worthwhile is in most of us. But it was all small potatoes compared to the real issues of wealthy human beings keeping their neighbours in starving conditions.

"He who fucks nuns will later join the church" I think we are all members anyway like it or not, it just takes time for the realization to set in.

This subject would indeed make a superb book.
Plenty of good writing about that, altho most rooted in Marxist despair (and dreary to read). Something more approachable is this: https://thebaffler.com/salvos/alternative-to-what

My class is reading this for tomorrow as part of some introductory pieces. I expect the most push back on that one because it is pretty damned negative.
An excellent read and thanks for posting that. Many of us find the lure of being rebellious too attracting from a perspective of appearing cool. Wearing that t-shirt that says look how different I am to you as I know who the cool rock band is. Not realising that some poor souls sweated their guts out to feed their famillies on a pittance. Others just like to dress the part and feel they are part of some revolution. Go on protest marches for the right cause (I'm talking about myself here) but then one man dies from police brutality and it all becomes completely worthless.
In sum: Everything sucks. G'night, everyone! ;)
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 35346
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Rock n Roll Trivia Challenge 2014: Micky Dolenz' Revenge!

Post by Marky Dread » 14 Sep 2017, 2:04pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 1:14pm
Marky Dread wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 1:10pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:55pm
Marky Dread wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:47pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 12:33pm


Which is a big and recurring question I have for my rock seminar: can rebellious art meaningfully exist within a profit-driven model? I've grown more and more cynical on that question as I age. Or at least the successes are always deeply compromised and indirect, limited to perhaps inspiring others to dissent in more significant ways. But overall, no, capitalism loves selling us rebellion that doesn't really challenge structural controls.
The above post is exactly how I feel now. As a rebellious young man I simply couldn't see it as being that simple. The need to rebel against something considered worthwhile is in most of us. But it was all small potatoes compared to the real issues of wealthy human beings keeping their neighbours in starving conditions.

"He who fucks nuns will later join the church" I think we are all members anyway like it or not, it just takes time for the realization to set in.

This subject would indeed make a superb book.
Plenty of good writing about that, altho most rooted in Marxist despair (and dreary to read). Something more approachable is this: https://thebaffler.com/salvos/alternative-to-what

My class is reading this for tomorrow as part of some introductory pieces. I expect the most push back on that one because it is pretty damned negative.
An excellent read and thanks for posting that. Many of us find the lure of being rebellious too attracting from a perspective of appearing cool. Wearing that t-shirt that says look how different I am to you as I know who the cool rock band is. Not realising that some poor souls sweated their guts out to feed their famillies on a pittance. Others just like to dress the part and feel they are part of some revolution. Go on protest marches for the right cause (I'm talking about myself here) but then one man dies from police brutality and it all becomes completely worthless.
In sum: Everything sucks. G'night, everyone! ;)
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