I Don't Care How Uncool it Sounds...

[Heston]

Share with the rest of the class, then.

By the way, can you stop being so fucking patronising.

[Rat Patrol]

Maybe it doesn't work, but at least they act like they care.

So they're better actors. Nominate 'em for an Academy Award to go with the Nobel Prize.

[Flex]

So they're better actors. Nominate 'em for an Academy Award to go with the Nobel Prize.

I think the thing with U2 is they, you know, actually do raise money for relief efforts and use their considerable platform to push and support different relief groups. they actually get real dollars to these groups, which is more than The Clash ever did.

Unless there is some evidence you have (genuinely curious) that they have been total frauds and none of the money they claim to have gone to charities has actually gone there but instead to some giant slush fund or something? I know there's some hoopla about them not paying taxes or whatever, but I sort of have a hard time caring about that.

The bigger criticism is that they go about activist work in exactly the wrong way (although it is the most popular and accepted way here in the West, so I dunno how much I blame them in particular)... which is an inherently paternalistic/condescending type of activism. The way relief efforts are generally structured in the west the money just funnels to corrupt governments and little gets seen by the people. Besides that, the top down relief approach does little to change structural problems in the country. All that said, I think a sharper criticism of U2 would be that they are unable/unwilling to think more critically about the structural nature of global poverty. While I think this is a problem, I hardly think it's a problem exclusive to U2 and it still doesn't mean they don't care or aren't trying.

So, I have a hard time believing Bono is just completely faking his activist approach - he's invested too much time and effort not to genuinely care (even if his ego is tremendously bloated). Whether, on sum, his efforts are good are bad is a more interesting subject (I think), but I don't know how much of that discussion would actually reflect on Bono's character which seems to be the topic we always get our panties in a knot over. Maybe it speaks to a critical thinking ability (or lack thereof), but if so this is hardly unique in Bono and I certainly don't think it worse than many we give a free pass to.

[Rat Patrol]

So they're better actors. Nominate 'em for an Academy Award to go with the Nobel Prize.

I think the thing with U2 is they, you know, actually do raise money for relief efforts and use their considerable platform to push and support different relief groups. they actually get real dollars to these groups, which is more than The Clash ever did.

Unless there is some evidence you have (genuinely curious) that they have been total frauds and none of the money they claim to have gone to charities has actually gone there but instead to some giant slush fund or something? I know there's some hoopla about them not paying taxes or whatever, but I sort of have a hard time caring about that.

The bigger criticism is that they go about activist work in exactly the wrong way (although it is the most popular and accepted way here in the West, so I dunno how much I blame them in particular)... which is an inherently paternalistic/condescending type of activism. The way relief efforts are generally structured in the west the money just funnels to corrupt governments and little gets seen by the people. Besides that, the top down relief approach does little to change structural problems in the country. All that said, I think a sharper criticism of U2 would be that they are unable/unwilling to think more critically about the structural nature of global poverty. While I think this is a problem, I hardly think it's a problem exclusive to U2 and it still doesn't mean they don't care or aren't trying.

So, I have a hard time believing Bono is just completely faking his activist approach - he's invested too much time and effort not to genuinely care (even if his ego is tremendously bloated). Whether, on sum, his efforts are good are bad is a more interesting subject (I think), but I don't know how much of that discussion would actually reflect on Bono's character which seems to be the topic we always get our panties in a knot over. Maybe it speaks to a critical thinking ability (or lack thereof), but if so this is hardly unique in Bono and I certainly don't think it worse than many we give a free pass to.

I was being a bit flip there about absolutist arguments and non-sequitur wedging of axes already ground past a nub...but I think my attempt at sarcasm flopped. Retracted.

[IkarisOne]

So they're better actors. Nominate 'em for an Academy Award to go with the Nobel Prize.

I think the thing with U2 is they, you know, actually do raise money for relief efforts and use their considerable platform to push and support different relief groups. they actually get real dollars to these groups, which is more than The Clash ever did.

Unless there is some evidence you have (genuinely curious) that they have been total frauds and none of the money they claim to have gone to charities has actually gone there but instead to some giant slush fund or something? I know there's some hoopla about them not paying taxes or whatever, but I sort of have a hard time caring about that.

The bigger criticism is that they go about activist work in exactly the wrong way (although it is the most popular and accepted way here in the West, so I dunno how much I blame them in particular)... which is an inherently paternalistic/condescending type of activism. The way relief efforts are generally structured in the west the money just funnels to corrupt governments and little gets seen by the people. Besides that, the top down relief approach does little to change structural problems in the country. All that said, I think a sharper criticism of U2 would be that they are unable/unwilling to think more critically about the structural nature of global poverty. While I think this is a problem, I hardly think it's a problem exclusive to U2 and it still doesn't mean they don't care or aren't trying.

So, I have a hard time believing Bono is just completely faking his activist approach - he's invested too much time and effort not to genuinely care (even if his ego is tremendously bloated). Whether, on sum, his efforts are good are bad is a more interesting subject (I think), but I don't know how much of that discussion would actually reflect on Bono's character which seems to be the topic we always get our panties in a knot over. Maybe it speaks to a critical thinking ability (or lack thereof), but if so this is hardly unique in Bono and I certainly don't think it worse than many we give a free pass to.

Bono gets on my nerves as much as the next guy, but he puts his money where his mouth is. Or he walks it like he talks it. Or something. My main complaint with Bono is his ubiquitousness, and the fact that U2 can knock out a killer single now and then, but are content to push mere product. But by the same token, U2 stuck to their guns more or less, and played within their limitations and were smart enough to hire real producers to make their records. They probably could've tried their hand at badly self-produced Caribbean Eskimo Skiffle music and embarrassed themselves and their fans and put out a bunch of self-justifying bullshit in interviews that the gullible would still be parroting today. But they didn't. And if their recent records pretty much bore me, "Treasure" or "Shadows and Tall Trees" or "Seconds" never will.

[Flex]

I was being a bit flip there about absolutist arguments and non-sequitur wedging of axes already ground past a nub...but I think my attempt at sarcasm flopped. Retracted.

Robots, sadly, aren't programmed to detect sarcasm.

[Wolter]

My only problem with the ACTUAL activism of U2 (as opposed to the ubiquity of Bono) is (and this is a very debatable point, I will admit) that I feel like asshats like Bush basically play them off as a PR game.

"Oooh, W met with Bono, he's doing something after all..." and such.

Again, it's more a gut feeling than a fully realized argument.

And I like early U2 a lot.

[BostonBeaneater]

Bono has become a punching bag. I agree that he is a little annoying but you cannot fault his alltruism. You can slag on him for meeting with the Pope and Bush about the issues he champions but I think that's wrongheaded. I don't know what kind of results he gets but at least he bothers. I haven't dug U2 in years but I appreciate any band that can hang around that long.

[Marky Dread]

Unlike the Elton Johns of this world, maybe the Clash didn't make their charitable acts public?
I've read many first-hand accounts of the Clash giving money to local music collectives/drug foundations etc.

Share with the rest of the class, then.

They made Sandinista how much more generosity do you need?

[Kory]

If you like early U2 you should check out a band called The Sound. Supremely obscure and OOP now, but very, very good. A little darker and more proficient than U2, so they didn't get anywhere.

Cheers, Kory. And in turn I'd recommend to you the first three Comsat Angels albums!

[youtube][/youtube]

Oh, I've had those for some time now...they're really great, aren't they? I dont' know why some of these groups are so overlooked...

[Heston]

I'm not being funny but Comsat Angels remind me of these dudes...

[youtube][/youtube]

[Jimmy Jazz]

I'm afraid I'm going to sound even uncooler since I'm a big fan of almost all of U2's career. I really didn't like their last album, so I haven't been as in to them the last few years. I'm hoping their next album will win me back, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't. I love the 80s stuff but the Zoo TV era is probably my favorite time period of perhaps any band. Achtung Baby competes with London Calling calling as my favorite album ever and Zooropa may also be in my top ten.

As for Bono, he's almost becoming a parody of himself but he seems like a genuinely nice guy who is sincere with all his charity crap, so he doesn't bother me that much.

[youtube][/youtube]

[Marky Dread]

You're not alone JJ I like all of the U2 albums.

[IkarisOne]

You know, the one Clash II song that was actually written by the band (Pouring Rain 2.0) doesn't sound a million miles away from U2. Wouldn't that be ironic if they'd continued in that direction?

[threecoffins]

You know, the one Clash II song that was actually written by the band (Pouring Rain 2.0) doesn't sound a million miles away from U2. Wouldn't that be ironic if they'd continued in that direction?

They'd have eventually made U2's Pop.