THE REPLACEMENTS Song of the Day

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Re: THE REPLACEMENTS Song of the Day

Post by Rat Patrol » 14 May 2014, 9:35am

For your "Shammerd Walk Home from the Bar" mix tape. . .

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Re: THE REPLACEMENTS Song of the Day

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In » 15 May 2014, 12:29am

One of the great songs ever...

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Re: THE REPLACEMENTS Song of the Day

Post by Inder » 15 May 2014, 4:34am

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The fun really starts with Bobdamn Bob.

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Re: THE REPLACEMENTS Song of the Day

Post by Rat Patrol » 15 May 2014, 12:07pm



Stink-era shows were very...efficiently...paced, no? :scared:
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Re: THE REPLACEMENTS Song of the Day

Post by Rat Patrol » 15 May 2014, 12:47pm

Actually, most of the Tim demos were blasted out in one gear just like that. That was Bob regaining the upper-hand in the neverending see-saw battle over musical directorship. When he put his foot down (usually by busting out the SRP epithets and occasionally refusing to play the slow numbers) everything came out consistently loud/fast. When Paul put his foot down (usually by cutting acoustic demos apart from the others and not letting them rehearse plugged in until he won on locking down the arrangement) the tracks went to tape mixed-tempo. And when the battles were a draw...usually a brilliant mix of both, like Let It Be. Paul was arguably the least-functional alcoholic in the band at the moment they were coming off the boozy Let It Be tour, so Bob had more leverage to dig in. It swung back the other way when they signed to Warner and they did that aborted all-acoustic session with Alex Chilton as producer. '86 and the live + demo introductions of the PTMM tracks...Bob starting to push back again by deafening everyone onstage and passive-aggressively being sober and focused the nights Paul was sauced, and vice versa. Until Paul got the label's backing to sack him.


There's an '84 boot I really want to download (all links for it on Mats Archive are dead at the moment) where Paul and Bob spend the entire set verbally sparring with each other, to the point where the tape captures people in the audience excitedly exclaiming "They're going to kill each other!" War gets waged over the setlist, which swings wildly from fast/hard Sorry Ma... tracks to country, Motown, and prog covers. With them eventually coming to some sort of truce by doing the Pistols' "Did You No Wrong" as set closer.
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Re: THE REPLACEMENTS Song of the Day

Post by Rat Patrol » 15 May 2014, 2:30pm

And for an example of this tug-of-war playing itself out, here's KMOTB from Summer '86 when Bob knew he was on his way out and decided he was going down swinging. . .



Same tempo as the album version. Usually Paul is the dominant guitar on this song. But here the Bob/Chris "loud" faction in the band stiffened up the beat with that severe *snap!* inspired by electronic drum pads, and Bob's accenting every riff so he's the only guitar the audience is paying any attention to. This show is absolutely full of those subtle little moments, since Paul was coasting a little bit on these intermittent summer gigs held between PTMM rehearsals/demos and going through a period as the weaker hand in battle while Bob is trolling him by showing up to play sober and acting as the aggressor in the mix.


Especially on the PTMM songs, where the volume wars are in full effect:

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Re: THE REPLACEMENTS Song of the Day

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In » 15 May 2014, 3:38pm

Paul always had the new label and management's proxy to sack Bob. When they signed the Warners contract, Paul and Tommy actually considered not including Bob on the deal at that point. Their reasoning was that his mental issues and substance abuse would worsen on the sort of commercial campaign they'd have to wage, and it would be catastrophic... For Bob. There is obviously another, significantly different point of view on that...

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Re: THE REPLACEMENTS Song of the Day

Post by Rat Patrol » 15 May 2014, 4:39pm

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:Paul always had the new label and management's proxy to sack Bob. When they signed the Warners contract, Paul and Tommy actually considered not including Bob on the deal at that point. Their reasoning was that his mental issues and substance abuse would worsen on the sort of commercial campaign they'd have to wage, and it would be catastrophic... For Bob. There is obviously another, significantly different point of view on that...
Yep. That's pretty much how Chris tells it in the very few interviews he's given. Bob was always Exhibit A because his problems always played out in the most public way possible. But Chris said his own coke intake was so out-of-control...with enough close calls...that in reality it was a coin flip who was going to OD first. People just never knew because he always did his self-medicating in private. And said that Paul's binge-drinking was so bad '84-86 that it only took crapshoot odds that he didn't pass out on his back one night and Bon Scott himself. Plus crippling undiagnosed bipolar disorder, which was why he was imperious and not such a nice guy to be bandmates with when he was up, and liable to lead the charge in self-sabotaging their rep with the label by intentionally throwing a show when he was down. And Tommy...somewhat miraculous that he didn't become an addict with teen hormones + sex/drugs/rock n'roll + addictive personality + family history colliding head-on with oversupply of temptation. All 4 of them were damaged youth.

The only winners and losers were who won the messaging war, and who managed to stop the madness by confronting their demons before it was too late. Chris by cutting 100% ties with life as a musician. Paul washing out as a solo artist, getting therapy, getting on the right meds, and keeping himself on a tight leash the last 15 years with the DIY basement recordings and very, very limited widely-spaced touring commitments so he's never away from home more than a few days at a time. Tommy by simply being a lucky S.O.B. and fashioning himself a reliable bass-for-hire. And, yeah, even Bob was trying at the end...docs finally got a hold on his long-undiagnosed ADHD and bipolar and got him on proper meds for the first time, moved back with his mom for daily supervision, tried to get involved in his son's life after being absentee from Day 1. He just didn't have enough time left on the clock for such a late start at attempting the straight-and-narrow.


Hell, the 'replacement' Replacements weren't exactly healthy-living individuals either. Slim was hung-over pretty much every working day of his life...looking like walking-death that just rolled out of bed and strapped on a guitar was pretty much his whole aura as performer. Decades of that caught up with him with his current debilitating health issues. And Steve Foley OD'd 6 years ago on prescription meds for crippling anxiety and depression that derailed a career as session man that was really starting to take off post-Mats. Ruled an accident, but may have been a suicide. Ironically, he and Chris...the guy he replaced...lived across the street from each other in his final years and became BFF's over love of motorcycles. Chris says he was recovering, freshly married, and starting to get his career back together when he died.


The Rust Belt was a bleak, bleak place to be coming of age in the late-70's. The Class of '77 in England gets all the glory for making a loud racket in the ruins of a post-Empire shithole, and NYC punks have the street cred from what a terrorscape New York City was in that era. But they were comparatively lucky being able to carve a niche in the big city. The latchkey kids in Middle America had jack nothing to look forward to, and nothing around them to do when their absentee parents left them unsupervised. The Mats...and their psychological problems...are a microcosm of what a near-total loss that whole generation was in flyover country. That's why they resonated with the folks lucky enough to have a record store or college radio station that served up anything different from AOR conformity. There were literally millions of "Mats Babies" just like them.
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Re: THE REPLACEMENTS Song of the Day

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In » 15 May 2014, 4:46pm

Robert Longo told me back in '85 that Bob Stinson had a plate in his head. I've known Russ Rieger for twenty years but I never asked him about that. Seemed uncouth.

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Re: THE REPLACEMENTS Song of the Day

Post by muppet hi fi » 15 May 2014, 8:49pm

Rat Patrol wrote:The Rust Belt was a bleak, bleak place to be coming of age in the late-70's. The Class of '77 in England gets all the glory for making a loud racket in the ruins of a post-Empire shithole, and NYC punks have the street cred from what a terrorscape New York City was in that era. But they were comparatively lucky being able to carve a niche in the big city. The latchkey kids in Middle America had jack nothing to look forward to, and nothing around them to do when their absentee parents left them unsupervised. The Mats...and their psychological problems...are a microcosm of what a near-total loss that whole generation was in flyover country. That's why they resonated with the folks lucky enough to have a record store or college radio station that served up anything different from AOR conformity. There were literally millions of "Mats Babies" just like them.
I don't add to this thread much or ever because A) I've heard nearly all the music, but more importantly, the same reason I can't be on a 'Mats/Westerberg message board: there's just, literally, too much for me to say, too many stories and anecdotes, too many opinions, too many memories and experiences, a lot of them very sad or emotionally...not right.

But this last paragraph you wrote, Ratty, actually made me almost tear up a bit. It's a very accurate view, not only of the UK and NYC scene visa vis the Minneapolis scene, but just the observations on working/middle class latchkey kids at the time. Your writing there really hit me. It was beautifully stated. Thank you for that, man.

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Re: THE REPLACEMENTS Song of the Day

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In » 15 May 2014, 10:53pm

Nice one.

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Re: THE REPLACEMENTS Song of the Day

Post by Marky Dread » 15 May 2014, 11:42pm

muppet hi fi wrote:
Rat Patrol wrote:The Rust Belt was a bleak, bleak place to be coming of age in the late-70's. The Class of '77 in England gets all the glory for making a loud racket in the ruins of a post-Empire shithole, and NYC punks have the street cred from what a terrorscape New York City was in that era. But they were comparatively lucky being able to carve a niche in the big city. The latchkey kids in Middle America had jack nothing to look forward to, and nothing around them to do when their absentee parents left them unsupervised. The Mats...and their psychological problems...are a microcosm of what a near-total loss that whole generation was in flyover country. That's why they resonated with the folks lucky enough to have a record store or college radio station that served up anything different from AOR conformity. There were literally millions of "Mats Babies" just like them.
I don't add to this thread much or ever because A) I've heard nearly all the music, but more importantly, the same reason I can't be on a 'Mats/Westerberg message board: there's just, literally, too much for me to say, too many stories and anecdotes, too many opinions, too many memories and experiences, a lot of them very sad or emotionally...not right.

But this last paragraph you wrote, Ratty, actually made me almost tear up a bit. It's a very accurate view, not only of the UK and NYC scene visa vis the Minneapolis scene, but just the observations on working/middle class latchkey kids at the time. Your writing there really hit me. It was beautifully stated. Thank you for that, man.
Poor? that'll be kids who couldn't afford guitars or drum kits.
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Re: THE REPLACEMENTS Song of the Day

Post by muppet hi fi » 16 May 2014, 12:26am

Marky Dread wrote:
muppet hi fi wrote:
Rat Patrol wrote:The Rust Belt was a bleak, bleak place to be coming of age in the late-70's. The Class of '77 in England gets all the glory for making a loud racket in the ruins of a post-Empire shithole, and NYC punks have the street cred from what a terrorscape New York City was in that era. But they were comparatively lucky being able to carve a niche in the big city. The latchkey kids in Middle America had jack nothing to look forward to, and nothing around them to do when their absentee parents left them unsupervised. The Mats...and their psychological problems...are a microcosm of what a near-total loss that whole generation was in flyover country. That's why they resonated with the folks lucky enough to have a record store or college radio station that served up anything different from AOR conformity. There were literally millions of "Mats Babies" just like them.
I don't add to this thread much or ever because A) I've heard nearly all the music, but more importantly, the same reason I can't be on a 'Mats/Westerberg message board: there's just, literally, too much for me to say, too many stories and anecdotes, too many opinions, too many memories and experiences, a lot of them very sad or emotionally...not right.

But this last paragraph you wrote, Ratty, actually made me almost tear up a bit. It's a very accurate view, not only of the UK and NYC scene visa vis the Minneapolis scene, but just the observations on working/middle class latchkey kids at the time. Your writing there really hit me. It was beautifully stated. Thank you for that, man.
Poor? that'll be kids who couldn't afford guitars or drum kits.
Not sure what you're referring to here mate. I was given a Ludwig snare for Christmas when I was 12 by my dad and a brother. I added on pieces as I could afford them from my paper route and then, by 14, from my dishwashing job at a pizza joint (quite illegal now, age wise). Yeah, we were a middle class family - dad was a lawyer - but I think Rattie's point was about more than economic stature. It was more, I think about having extremely fucked up parents in a climate (post-WWII) that didn't ask for, nor give many or any options to young people outside of schooling (sure wish I hadn't dropped out in 10th grade and moved away), or going to work (what I did at 15). Did I fuck up my own life and privlidged chances with poor decisions? Absolutely. But there's a whole psychic and emotional world behind those decisions and actions. And Westerberg and the 'Mats expressed, and indeed came from, those circumstances. Not in a socio-political way - that's not how they expressed themselves - but more in the psychological manifestations of their lives during that era. This is what gets me emotional: all the waste of semi-priveliged kids. And most of that waste came through their being ignored. And there wasn't shit they could do about it. We weren't cool, didn't have a "cause", didn't have glamorous or even seedy street life to inform us. We were just dumb and boring. And,in an almost nameless way, hurting terribly. And I can scarcely listen to any 'Mats or Westerberg music anymore. Some of my favorite music ever - and it reeks of failure and death to me. Not fun, not funny or ironic. Maybe it's just me, Marky...
EDIT: when i refer to "they" or "them", I really mean me as well. I guess this is kind of folk music to me.
EDIT 2: I'd much rather be poor in the cash department than in the spirit. That's what i'm used to (my problem of course), but now days, the 'Mats' music reminds me too much of how spiritual poverty is the real killer. (i should shut the hell up and quit while i'm behind...)

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Re: THE REPLACEMENTS Song of the Day

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In » 16 May 2014, 3:25am

Muppet, it's not just failure and death, though I understand you're close to these people and I am more removed in my appreciation. The whole effort of creating art and performing it for an audience who got something out of it is a great transcendence. For me, the Replacements were, for a time anyway, transcendent. And Paul's Keith Richards-esque guitar playing on a Junior with a p-90 is transcendent. A smart kid from flyover country whose references included Johnny Thunders and trashy AM pop radio (for shorthand). I still see the Replacements as strangely analogous to the Libertines, one very mid-American, one very London, but each finding a trashy elegance to transcend their probable dead end.

As for Marky, yeah, maybe these guys aren't really poor for real but most great (white) rock and roll has come from more middle class origins. Paul Westerberg came from enough of a background to worry about selling out. People who come up with nothing don't worry so much about that, they just scratch to get there. Maybe the Mats don't translate well to a British audience. They never did get very far there. The Libs actually did do better over here, though just in the big cities.

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