Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

[WestwayKid]

This is a fascinating and disturbing listen:

[Dr. Medulla]

This is a fascinating and disturbing listen:

That book I'm reading reproduces it as a transcript. Serious wow factor to it all.

As to my question, while I agree with you both, I end up coming back to the question of whether it was worth it. Yes, fantastic music, success, etc etc, but Brian's emotional problems, Dennis' descent into self-destructive behaviour. I try to balance these things off and struggle with justifying the human toll.

[Silent Majority]

This is a fascinating and disturbing listen:

That book I'm reading reproduces it as a transcript. Serious wow factor to it all.

As to my question, while I agree with you both, I end up coming back to the question of whether it was worth it. Yes, fantastic music, success, etc etc, but Brian's emotional problems, Dennis' descent into self-destructive behaviour. I try to balance these things off and struggle with justifying the human toll.

Nah, no art, no matter how elevated, or enriching, is worth the unreasonable pain of the artist. That alone soils the beauty. A perfect production can be made imperfect if its gestation left the creators worse than when they started.

[Flex]

As to my question, while I agree with you both, I end up coming back to the question of whether it was worth it. Yes, fantastic music, success, etc etc, but Brian's emotional problems, Dennis' descent into self-destructive behaviour. I try to balance these things off and struggle with justifying the human toll.

Oh, I would definitely trade the beach boys catalog if it meant letting the Wilsons grow up to lead lives free of abuse. Maybe they achieve creative success anyways, maybe not, but human carnage is rarely "worth it" in my book.

[Flex]

Nah, no art, no matter how elevated, or enriching, is worth the unreasonable pain of the artist. That alone soils the beauty. A perfect production can be made imperfect if its gestation left the creators worse than when they started.

I agree with the first sentence but I'm not sure if I agree with the second or third, or maybe I just think of it on different terms. Maybe its not about whether the music is soiled or not because of how it was created (although it certainly can be, in specific instances) but about how we listen and appreciate it. Thinking of the beach boys specifically, so much of being a fan of the band (at least in the 21st century) is about appreciating the strength and perseverance of Brian and the gang, even in the face of pain and tragedy. I think, in some ways, that celebration enhances rather than detracts from the music. I can't know with absolute certainty, but I suspect it would pain someone like Brian Wilson to know that his suffering rendered his art "spoiled" for a listener rather than his pain at least producing something a person could hear and connect to with love.

Tangentially, I think this is part of why fans of the band tend to even love the stuff that's pretty shit, because it's as much about loving Brian and the rest as anything, and you can still do that even with the crap records.

[Silent Majority]

Nah, no art, no matter how elevated, or enriching, is worth the unreasonable pain of the artist. That alone soils the beauty. A perfect production can be made imperfect if its gestation left the creators worse than when they started.

I agree with the first sentence but I'm not sure if I agree with the second or third, or maybe I just think of it on different terms. Maybe its not about whether the music is soiled or not because of how it was created (although it certainly can be, in specific instances) but about how we listen and appreciate it. Thinking of the beach boys specifically, so much of being a fan of the band (at least in the 21st century) is about appreciating the strength and perseverance of Brian and the gang, even in the face of pain and tragedy. I think, in some ways, that celebration enhances rather than detracts from the music. I can't know with absolute certainty, but I suspect it would pain someone like Brian Wilson to know that his suffering rendered his art "spoiled" for a listener rather than his pain at least producing something a person could hear and connect to with love.

Tangentially, I think this is part of why fans of the band tend to even love the stuff that's pretty shit, because it's as much about loving Brian and the rest as anything, and you can still do that even with the crap records.

Yeah, we can still enjoy it hugely! Soiled, for me, doesn't mean unsalvageable - as my boxers drawer will attest. Brian's fight to create is inspiring and his artistic quest improves the context of those records. I listen to whatever version is best of Smile, and I think, among the achievements, "What a pity."

[Flex]

Yeah, we can still enjoy it hugely! Soiled, for me, doesn't mean unsalvageable - as my boxers drawer will attest. Brian's fight to create is inspiring and his artistic quest improves the context of those records. I listen to whatever version is best of Smile, and I think, among the achievements, "What a pity."

I, also, hugely enjoy your boxers.

[WestwayKid]

As to my question, while I agree with you both, I end up coming back to the question of whether it was worth it. Yes, fantastic music, success, etc etc, but Brian's emotional problems, Dennis' descent into self-destructive behaviour. I try to balance these things off and struggle with justifying the human toll.

Oh, I would definitely trade the beach boys catalog if it meant letting the Wilsons grow up to lead lives free of abuse. Maybe they achieve creative success anyways, maybe not, but human carnage is rarely "worth it" in my book.

100%. Brian comes across as someone who probably wasn't meant for stardom. I think being Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys has taken a lot from him. I think it's still taking a lot from him. I'm not convinced he's all that keen on touring. I think he has people telling him he needs to tour for a variety of reasons, but my gut says he'd be happier on his couch watching baseball.

[WestwayKid]

Nah, no art, no matter how elevated, or enriching, is worth the unreasonable pain of the artist. That alone soils the beauty. A perfect production can be made imperfect if its gestation left the creators worse than when they started.

I agree with the first sentence but I'm not sure if I agree with the second or third, or maybe I just think of it on different terms. Maybe its not about whether the music is soiled or not because of how it was created (although it certainly can be, in specific instances) but about how we listen and appreciate it. Thinking of the beach boys specifically, so much of being a fan of the band (at least in the 21st century) is about appreciating the strength and perseverance of Brian and the gang, even in the face of pain and tragedy. I think, in some ways, that celebration enhances rather than detracts from the music. I can't know with absolute certainty, but I suspect it would pain someone like Brian Wilson to know that his suffering rendered his art "spoiled" for a listener rather than his pain at least producing something a person could hear and connect to with love.

Tangentially, I think this is part of why fans of the band tend to even love the stuff that's pretty shit, because it's as much about loving Brian and the rest as anything, and you can still do that even with the crap records.

I agree with this. There is a definite element of celebrating that they're still here. It blew my mind (in a good way) when Brian turned 80 last year. Who would have thought that would ever happen. He's been through hell and back again more than once.

[Dr. Medulla]

It blew my mind (in a good way) when Brian turned 80 last year. Who would have thought that would ever happen. He's been through hell and back again more than once.

That he'd be the last Wilson standing is almost perverse. But you just know that MIke fucking Love will be the last Beach Boy to prove … something.

[matedog]

Tangentially, I think this is part of why fans of the band tend to even love the stuff that's pretty shit, because it's as much about loving Brian and the rest as anything, and you can still do that even with the crap records.

This actually makes sense to me why there is love for a period that I just can't understand.

[WestwayKid]

Tangentially, I think this is part of why fans of the band tend to even love the stuff that's pretty shit, because it's as much about loving Brian and the rest as anything, and you can still do that even with the crap records.

This actually makes sense to me why there is love for a period that I just can't understand.

My philosophy for their worst periods is "hey, but it's still the Beach Boys" and that allows me to at least find something decent.

[Dr. Medulla]

Tangentially, I think this is part of why fans of the band tend to even love the stuff that's pretty shit, because it's as much about loving Brian and the rest as anything, and you can still do that even with the crap records.

This actually makes sense to me why there is love for a period that I just can't understand.

My philosophy for their worst periods is "hey, but it's still the Beach Boys" and that allows me to at least find something decent.

I can never do that, even with artists I love. Shit is shit and I have a hard time rationalizing it.

[Flex]

Tangentially, I think this is part of why fans of the band tend to even love the stuff that's pretty shit, because it's as much about loving Brian and the rest as anything, and you can still do that even with the crap records.

This actually makes sense to me why there is love for a period that I just can't understand.

My philosophy for their worst periods is "hey, but it's still the Beach Boys" and that allows me to at least find something decent.

I can never do that, even with artists I love. Shit is shit and I have a hard time rationalizing it.

I think there's a big difference between creative people (or at least people whose creativity you vibe with) making bad music and bland morons making bad music. I'll spend time finding interesting stuff in a bad beach boys period because there's stuff to find, but I don't think there's anything of creative value in a Nickelback album (for example). It's why there's stuff to sift through and enjoy even in low periods of the clash/Joe strummer/mick Jones' creativity, at least to me.

I'd also make a distinction, not that you're suggesting otherwise but just for the record, between appreciating the good within the bad and pretending the bad is actually good. It's the difference between finding something of value in cut the crap and actually thinking it's a good record.

[matedog]

Tangentially, I think this is part of why fans of the band tend to even love the stuff that's pretty shit, because it's as much about loving Brian and the rest as anything, and you can still do that even with the crap records.

This actually makes sense to me why there is love for a period that I just can't understand.

My philosophy for their worst periods is "hey, but it's still the Beach Boys" and that allows me to at least find something decent.

I find it sorta like how I continue to listen to Weezer. I can still find traces of what I love from those first two albums in all their work. Sometimes the traces are bigger than others.