What Are you Listening to Right Now?

[Marky Dread]

I don't care much for the fanbase attitude to be honest. Peter can do what he likes and I don't really have a take on how much he cares for the legacy. It's all nonsense to me that people somehow think you can harm a legacy just by playing old material with a fresher approach be it by an original band member or a cover artist. Hooky speaks kindly of that Paul Young version which most don't care for but it takes nothing away from the brilliance of the original.

He is so much kinder than I ever could be to that Paul Young cover. Again, I may be uncharacteristically romantic about it, but when I hear Hook and the Light do Joy Division, it sounds like a genuine love for it all. Especially in a way that I never really heard when New Order did JD songs. If I'm reading way too much into it, so be it.

You might like this.
https://www.wcpo.com/entertainment/form ... t-new-book

Thanks! I've read both his JD and NO books and enjoyed the rather self-effacing style. This bit jumped out at me: "Ian wasn't a victim of success. He was victim of circumstance." That's the thing that really does gnaw at me. The self-destruction wasn't that rock star over-indulgence cliche, but a poor fucker who was shown his dreams and then was betrayed by his body. I don't understand the ghoulish romanticization of his suicide that some generate. He made his choice, the one he thought made sense, but it's unfair that he was in the situation to make that choice, leaving behind so many people who loved him. There but for the grace of God …

Suicide is just such a selfish act no matter how much pain you may be in. I know because I attempted to take my own life when I was in my early twenties. All you want is the pain to end and it's a blinkered view because all you are doing is passing on that pain and sadness onto those you leave behind and they are the ones that love you most.

Ian's death was extremely sad and who knows how big JD would have become. I don't see JD becoming big like say U2 did with the stadium rock thing and I wonder just where JD would've fitted in chart wise. I also can't imagine Ian fronting New Order but then who knows maybe the band would've gone in the direction of say Bowie with Low/Heroes or Iggy with The Idiot/Lust for Lfe as JD were big fans of those and Ian especially. Somehow though he is still touching from a distance.

Regards the Paul Young cover : I can accept it for what it is. Paul Young made a career from covering songs and I see nothing much wrong in that and he just picked one of his favourite songs. I'm not endorsing it as being any good but there are much worse offenders out there.

[Dr. Medulla]

Suicide is just such a selfish act no matter how much pain you may be in. I know because I attempted to take my own life when I was in my early twenties. All you want is the pain to end and it's a blinkered view because all you are doing is passing on that pain and sadness onto those you leave behind and they are the ones that love you most.

I can't bring myself to judging harshly those who kill themselves. During a particularly long and dark depression around twenty years ago, while I wasn't suicidal, I glimpsed, I think, the pain that lead people to take that route. Living in such torment and misery, terrified and trapped in your mind, is no way to exist. While it's unfair that the survivors have to carry on with the loss, it's equally unfair to live in such turmoil.

Ian's death was extremely sad and who knows how big JD would have become. I don't see JD becoming big like say U2 did with the stadium rock thing and I wonder just where JD would've fitted in chart wise. I also can't imagine Ian fronting New Order but then who knows maybe the band would've gone in the direction of say Bowie with Low/Heroes or Iggy with The Idiot/Lust for Lfe as JD were big fans of those and Ian especially. Somehow though he is still touching from a distance.

Yeah, it's hard to see an Ian Curtis-led band achieving the kind of success that NO did, yet bands like the Cure pulled it off, so why not? Weirder things have happened.

Regards the Paul Young cover : I can accept it for what it is. Paul Young made a career from covering songs and I see nothing much wrong in that and he just picked one of his favourite songs. I'm not endorsing it as being any good but there are much worse offenders out there.

Sure, cover what you want, but, pee-yew, in execution and spirit, it sounds so fucking wrong. Like Celine Dion doing, I dunno, GStQ.

[Marky Dread]

I can't bring myself to judging harshly those who kill themselves. During a particularly long and dark depression around twenty years ago, while I wasn't suicidal, I glimpsed, I think, the pain that lead people to take that route. Living in such torment and misery, terrified and trapped in your mind, is no way to exist. While it's unfair that the survivors have to carry on with the loss, it's equally unfair to live in such turmoil.

I'm not judging harshly those who take their lives. I have a fair understanding of their anguish but it's still a selfish thing to do in my eyes.

[JennyB]

Ah, the rare John Cage mix.

Yes but I prefer the remix where if you listen carefully you can hear the sound of Peter Hook whispering "when is it dinnertime?"

Aw, you're mean. Sure he's a bit of a fatso now, but he's done well to abuse and pilfer from Joy Division's legacy. Which saves him so much time and effort having to write and record any new material of worth.

Whose mean?

I admit that I have a blind spot and am more forgiving in this incidence, but I want to believe he's being less mercenary than fatherly towards Ian's and Joy Division's memory. I might also be prejudiced by the fact that, from what I can tell, the New Order fanbase has pretty much excommunicated him, which seems a bit unfair. But I might be a naive child here.

Fanbases tend to ruin things. Look at what we have done to the Clash.

[Dr. Medulla]

Fanbases tend to ruin things. Look at what we have done to the Clash.

The Clash—mainly Mick—started it by betraying the fans. Just desserts, assholes, just desserts.

[WestwayKid]

I can't bring myself to judging harshly those who kill themselves. During a particularly long and dark depression around twenty years ago, while I wasn't suicidal, I glimpsed, I think, the pain that lead people to take that route. Living in such torment and misery, terrified and trapped in your mind, is no way to exist. While it's unfair that the survivors have to carry on with the loss, it's equally unfair to live in such turmoil.

I'm not judging harshly those who take their lives. I have a fair understanding of their anguish but it's still a selfish thing to do in my eyes.

In the book Dying: A Memoir, author Cory Taylor - who was dying of cancer - wrote about taking her own life. She went as far as purchasing the necessary medications, but in the end she decided to not use them. She wrote it wasn't so much about her own life - she was ready - but she felt it was not fair to her family or to the maid who might discover her body if she took her life in a hotel room and so on. She felt the emotional trauma left behind on others was more important than her own suffering. I thought it was an interesting take.

[Dr. Medulla]

In the book Dying: A Memoir, author Cory Taylor - who was dying of cancer - wrote about taking her own life. She went as far as purchasing the necessary medications, but in the end she decided to not use them. She wrote it wasn't so much about her own life - she was ready - but she felt it was not fair to her family or to the maid who might discover her body if she took her life in a hotel room and so on. She felt the emotional trauma left behind on others was more important than her own suffering. I thought it was an interesting take.

Which wouldn't be an issue if society took a more understanding attitude towards depression and suicide, rather than make it a shameful condition/act like being queer (in the larger sense of the word) and putting people in those lonely corners. If we can support euthanasia for the terminally ill with physical diseases, it seems to me a logical step to provide the same option for those suffering psychologically and have made the decision to end it. This isn't about advocacy for suicide, but reducing that harshness on the survivors, the memory of the deceased, and letting them go with some dignity.

[JennyB]

Fanbases tend to ruin things. Look at what we have done to the Clash.

The Clash—mainly Mick—started it by betraying the fans. Just desserts, assholes, just desserts.

That's the feet calling the fire hot.

[Dr. Medulla]

Fanbases tend to ruin things. Look at what we have done to the Clash.

The Clash—mainly Mick—started it by betraying the fans. Just desserts, assholes, just desserts.

That's the feet calling the fire hot.

*snicker* That's some fine IMCTin' there.

[JennyB]

Fanbases tend to ruin things. Look at what we have done to the Clash.

The Clash—mainly Mick—started it by betraying the fans. Just desserts, assholes, just desserts.

That's the feet calling the fire hot.

*snicker* That's some fine IMCTin' there.

I try, Doc. I try.

[Marky Dread]

In the book Dying: A Memoir, author Cory Taylor - who was dying of cancer - wrote about taking her own life. She went as far as purchasing the necessary medications, but in the end she decided to not use them. She wrote it wasn't so much about her own life - she was ready - but she felt it was not fair to her family or to the maid who might discover her body if she took her life in a hotel room and so on. She felt the emotional trauma left behind on others was more important than her own suffering. I thought it was an interesting take.

Which wouldn't be an issue if society took a more understanding attitude towards depression and suicide, rather than make it a shameful condition/act like being queer (in the larger sense of the word) and putting people in those lonely corners. If we can support euthanasia for the terminally ill with physical diseases, it seems to me a logical step to provide the same option for those suffering psychologically and have made the decision to end it. This isn't about advocacy for suicide, but reducing that harshness on the survivors, the memory of the deceased, and letting them go with some dignity.

I agree with the point raised about euthanasia for the terminally ill. But have a much more difficult time agreeing on the psyhcological side of things. Depression is an illness and I have suffered with it for a very long time. However if I had managed to take my life when I was 22 I wouldn't have had my two sons and I wouldn't never had given myself the chance to turn my life around. I still suffer with depression but have no thoughts of ending my life anymore. In fact just the opposite my sons give me all the reason I need to carry on living.

I do agree with you regards to society having to adapt to a better understanding of those with depression/anxiety/low mood etc.

[Dr. Medulla]

In the book Dying: A Memoir, author Cory Taylor - who was dying of cancer - wrote about taking her own life. She went as far as purchasing the necessary medications, but in the end she decided to not use them. She wrote it wasn't so much about her own life - she was ready - but she felt it was not fair to her family or to the maid who might discover her body if she took her life in a hotel room and so on. She felt the emotional trauma left behind on others was more important than her own suffering. I thought it was an interesting take.

Which wouldn't be an issue if society took a more understanding attitude towards depression and suicide, rather than make it a shameful condition/act like being queer (in the larger sense of the word) and putting people in those lonely corners. If we can support euthanasia for the terminally ill with physical diseases, it seems to me a logical step to provide the same option for those suffering psychologically and have made the decision to end it. This isn't about advocacy for suicide, but reducing that harshness on the survivors, the memory of the deceased, and letting them go with some dignity.

I agree with the point raised about euthanasia for the terminally ill. But have a much more difficult time agreeing on the psyhcological side of things. Depression is an illness and I have suffered with it for a very long time. However if I had managed to take my life when I was 22 I wouldn't have had my two sons and I wouldn't never had given myself the chance to turn my life around. I still suffer with depression but have no thoughts of ending my life anymore. In fact just the opposite my sons give me all the reason I need to carry on living.

I do agree with you regards to society having to adapt to a better understanding of those with depression/anxiety/low mood etc.

It is a difficult question all around—trust me, I don't regard it as anything obvious or easy. And getting to a better place is always the goal. Like with you, depression is a damned shadow that will always follow me, tho I think I've learned how to cope with it better when it manifests. But for those who are in such pain and just can't find a way forward, it's cruel and, well, selfish for others to preclude that option, to say that continuing their misery is better for us. It's a tragedy when someone believes ending their existence is preferable to continuing, but we need to respect that maybe they're right. We should seek to persuade them otherwise, but always understand that they might be right and respect their choice if they still make what is an unthinkable decision.

[Marky Dread]

In the book Dying: A Memoir, author Cory Taylor - who was dying of cancer - wrote about taking her own life. She went as far as purchasing the necessary medications, but in the end she decided to not use them. She wrote it wasn't so much about her own life - she was ready - but she felt it was not fair to her family or to the maid who might discover her body if she took her life in a hotel room and so on. She felt the emotional trauma left behind on others was more important than her own suffering. I thought it was an interesting take.

Which wouldn't be an issue if society took a more understanding attitude towards depression and suicide, rather than make it a shameful condition/act like being queer (in the larger sense of the word) and putting people in those lonely corners. If we can support euthanasia for the terminally ill with physical diseases, it seems to me a logical step to provide the same option for those suffering psychologically and have made the decision to end it. This isn't about advocacy for suicide, but reducing that harshness on the survivors, the memory of the deceased, and letting them go with some dignity.

I agree with the point raised about euthanasia for the terminally ill. But have a much more difficult time agreeing on the psyhcological side of things. Depression is an illness and I have suffered with it for a very long time. However if I had managed to take my life when I was 22 I wouldn't have had my two sons and I wouldn't never had given myself the chance to turn my life around. I still suffer with depression but have no thoughts of ending my life anymore. In fact just the opposite my sons give me all the reason I need to carry on living.

I do agree with you regards to society having to adapt to a better understanding of those with depression/anxiety/low mood etc.

It is a difficult question all around—trust me, I don't regard it as anything obvious or easy. And getting to a better place is always the goal. Like with you, depression is a damned shadow that will always follow me, tho I think I've learned how to cope with it better when it manifests. But for those who are in such pain and just can't find a way forward, it's cruel and, well, selfish for others to preclude that option, to say that continuing their misery is better for us. It's a tragedy when someone believes ending their existence is preferable to continuing, but we need to respect that maybe they're right. We should seek to persuade them otherwise, but always understand that they might be right and respect their choice if they still make what is an unthinkable decision.

I think this is the key thing.

I also accept that there are so many different situation that arise. Some people end up taking their own lives simply because they feel they are alone and see no end to their sad situation. It's harsh to call someone selfish when they are in so much termoil. When I say it's selfish I mean the act itself of killing yourself and some of those acts od suicide are so badly thought out.

No too long after my own attempt I was working for the postal service offloading mail trains at Reading station. This was xmas time and an obvious very busy period for mail. I was waiting on the platform for my next train to arrive and offload but before it's arrival there was to be a through non-stop train. As I stood watching the train approach a guy ran out from behind me and threw himself in front on the train (125 mph) and his blood and small pieces of flesh spashed up all over my postal uniform. I was stunned at first and then when to the bathroom to clean off the mess and continued on working as back then there was no kind of after care given to me. It hit me hard but not the blood and stuff but just the thought in my head as to why this guy took it to the extreme he did in order to end his life that way. I kept thinking why didn't he just lay down and take some pills (the same thing I attempted). Then I was thinking just what could've been going on inside that poor guys head he must've been under immense pressure to do something as selfish as this. Then I thought about those poor souls who had to pick up the pieces of his body and others who would've had to clean the train and then my thoughts turned to his family/next of kin who would have to identify him.

[Dr. Medulla]

Ugh, horrible. I've read that men tend to choose especially violent methods—guns, jumping—than women, who tend to opt for drugs. Perhaps it's about hyper annihilation, to really destroy yourself, but traumatizing others in that way is grotesque. Suffice it to say, my way would be a lethal dose that just permanently sedates me.

[Marky Dread]

Ugh, horrible. I've read that men tend to choose especially violent methods—guns, jumping—than women, who tend to opt for drugs. Perhaps it's about hyper annihilation, to really destroy yourself, but traumatizing others in that way is grotesque. Suffice it to say, my way would be a lethal dose that just permanently sedates me.

I would put you through it mate. Firstly I would show you a little light at the end of the tunnel by making you debate anarchism/karl marx/The Clash with your old pal clashy. Then just when you thought you were winning I'd get vince to slit your throat.