Biggest musical twat, VOTE NOW!

[Dr. Medulla]

I just hope for the sake of his career, he doesn't say anything negative about the hispanic community.

Is there much of a career left to worry about? He still has a devoted cluster of fans who will defend him to the death, but the larger audience doesn't give a fuck what he does anymore.

[Marky Dread]

Well we are all talking about him and forming our opinions so I guess it's a result for Morrissey.

Accusations of racism

Morrissey has been accused of racism or of out-dated attitudes to race. In 1985 he stated that "all reggae is vile", a dismissal of the genre that some found to be racially charged. He later said that this was a tongue-in-cheek answer to "wind up the right-on 1980s NME" and that he was actually a fan of much reggae music.[30][87]

Morrissey songs such as "Bengali in Platforms," "Asian Rut" and "The National Front Disco", whose lyrics relate to community relations in the UK, have been criticised by some as sympathetic towards racism.[citation needed] In a 2002 documentary, The Importance of Being Morrissey, the subject takes issue with those who have viewed his songs in this way, saying: "Not everybody is absolutely stupid".

Morrissey's performance at the first Madness Madstock! reunion concert at Finsbury Park, London, in 1992, saw him appear on stage carrying a Union Flag, often associated with nationalism and the British far-right. As a backdrop for this performance, he chose a photograph of two female skinheads. The British music magazine NME responded to the performance with a lengthy examination of Morrissey's attitudes to race, claiming that the singer had "left himself in a position where accusations that he's toying with far-right/fascist imagery, and even of racism itself, can no longer just be laughed off with a knowing quip."[88]

In 1994, Morrissey rejected claims of racism, saying "If the National Front were to hate anyone, it would be me". He qualified that by saying that far-right rage "is simply their anger at being ignored in what is supposed to be a democratic society."[89] In 1999, he lamented the rise of Austrian far-right politician Jörg Haider, saying: "This is sad. Sometimes I don't believe we live in an intelligent world".[90] In 2004, he was a founding signatory of the Unite Against Fascism pressure group.[91]

In 2007, Morrissey said in an interview with the NME that British identity had disappeared because of immigration. He later claimed to have been misrepresented, and his manager described the NME article as "character assassination".[92] In 2008, he made a donation of £75,000 to the organisers of the Love Music Hate Racism concert in London, after the withdrawal of the NME's sponsorship left the event facing a financial shortfall.[93][94] A legal suit by Morrissey against the NME began in October 2011.[95]

In 2008, Word Magazine was forced to apologise in court for an article by David Quantick that accused Morrissey of being a racist and a hypocrite.[96]

In 2010, during an interview with Simon Armitage for The Guardian, Morrissey alighted on the topic of animal cruelty in China, saying "you can't help but feel the Chinese are a sub-species".[97] This led to Love Music Hate Racism, to whom Morrissey had previously donated money, saying it would be unable to accept support from him again without a retraction. "When you start using language like 'subspecies'," said a spokesperson, "you are entering into dark and murky water".[98]

According to the commentator Liz Hoggard: "Morrissey didn't help his case with an uneasy flirtation with gangster imagery: he took up boxing and was accompanied everywhere by a skinhead, named Jake ... the man who abhorred violence became strangely fascinated by it."[99] Encyclopædia Britannica says that that Morrissey's 1990s albums, including Your Arsenal (1992), Vauxhall and I (1994), Southpaw Grammar (1995) and Maladjusted (1997) "testified to a growing homoerotic obsession with criminals, skinheads, and boxers, a change paralleled by a shift in the singer's image from wilting wallflower to would-be thug sporting sideburns and gold bracelets."[100]

Despite accusations of racism in the United Kingdom, Morrissey maintains a large Latino fan base in the United States and in Los Angeles particularly.[98]

Of course you will and should make up your own minds. I do not believe he is racist but he does like to use imflamatory comments. I enjoy his music and will do regardless of all the bullshit.

There are those here who enjoy Combat 18 and Skrewdriver so be it.

[Marky Dread]

I think Moz is more Xenophobic than racist.

[Dr. Medulla]

I think Moz is more Xenophobic than racist.

Tho the two concepts are separate, one often goes hand in hand with the other.

[Rat Patrol]

There are plenty of mildly or fully reprehensible people who make music. Musos are disproportionate twats. That's just how it works. It doesn't stop you from being able to make an independent conclusion about the worth and merits (including enjoyability) of the art they produce. If there's any place to hesitate, it's giving them money if giving them money is fuel for them to do harm. I'm pretty much at that point with U2 and Colonizer-in-Chief now. And was there a decade ago with all the copyright shills who bought the RIAA line that every fan = 1 potential criminal in the making. But that's like screening what companies you buy from. I stopped filling up at the local BP gas station after that oil spill, even though they were consistently cheapest in town. And I'm aware of what store chains give fund disgusting right-wing causes most egregiously (unfortunately so many of them do it's a pick-your-poison...but it's been years since I've ever ever stepped foot in a Wal-Mart because of principle).

As for Morrissey...I like The Smiths, can enjoy some of his solo moments. I am aware when I listen to him that he dances too casually with racism...and that people who dance too casually with it usually do so because they believe it, not because they're being coy. His rap sheet of stepping right up to the line without crossing over is too big for it to be some provocative game, even if he hasn't crossed into epithet territory. I am aware that he was probably one of those Thatcher-casualty poor youth in England who did get nudged to the right wing out of his frustration with things instead of the left like a lot of his other famous and not-famous brethren. But that's part of the context in digging into a lot of Smiths subject matter. I could picture him in 1984 being that guy in a political discussion with friends who tries to be even-handed devil's advocate about stuff like the National Front or something...but not being a participant at all. We all know people who thread the needle like that. And I probably would not pay to see him in concert because of this, whereas I would if this weren't his baggage.


You can be a critical thinker about this. Just because the majority of music fans are unthinking and all-or-nothing about what's acceptable and what isn't doesn't mean some people aren't capable of seeing things in degrees and seeing very complicated individuals in context. That's pure cultural lowered expectations to assume people aren't capable of evaluating it without being instantly assimilated into the racist borg or something.

[Marky Dread]

There are plenty of mildly or fully reprehensible people who make music. Musos are disproportionate twats. That's just how it works. It doesn't stop you from being able to make an independent conclusion about the worth and merits (including enjoyability) of the art they produce. If there's any place to hesitate, it's giving them money if giving them money is fuel for them to do harm. I'm pretty much at that point with U2 and Colonizer-in-Chief now. And was there a decade ago with all the copyright shills who bought the RIAA line that every fan = 1 potential criminal in the making. But that's like screening what companies you buy from. I stopped filling up at the local BP gas station after that oil spill, even though they were consistently cheapest in town. And I'm aware of what store chains give fund disgusting right-wing causes most egregiously (unfortunately so many of them do it's a pick-your-poison...but it's been years since I've ever ever stepped foot in a Wal-Mart because of principle).

As for Morrissey...I like The Smiths, can enjoy some of his solo moments. I am aware when I listen to him that he dances too casually with racism...and that people who dance too casually with it usually do so because they believe it, not because they're being coy. His rap sheet of stepping right up to the line without crossing over is too big for it to be some provocative game, even if he hasn't crossed into epithet territory. I am aware that he was probably one of those Thatcher-casualty poor youth in England who did get nudged to the right wing out of his frustration with things instead of the left like a lot of his other famous and not-famous brethren. But that's part of the context in digging into a lot of Smiths subject matter. I could picture him in 1984 being that guy in a political discussion with friends who tries to be even-handed devil's advocate about stuff like the National Front or something...but not being a participant at all. We all know people who thread the needle like that. And I probably would not pay to see him in concert because of this, whereas I would if this weren't his baggage.


You can be a critical thinker about this. Just because the majority of music fans are unthinking and all-or-nothing about what's acceptable and what isn't doesn't mean some people aren't capable of seeing things in degrees and seeing very complicated individuals in context. That's pure cultural lowered expectations to assume people aren't capable of evaluating it without being instantly assimilated into the racist borg or something.

Very nicely put RP.

I like a lot of his output and would consider myself a fan. I do not like his opinions even though it appears to me that he is exercising his right to free speech. Some of the things I imagine he see's as controversial are nothing less than boring and very outdated. Is he in touch with the UK or even America (as he lives in Beverly Hills) I don't think so. He is so far away from that gritty Manchester that got him writing in the first place, that being said was he ever in touch with the man on the street? All his inspirations were taken from old movies and literature.

My belief is he is not a genuine racist but see's a Britain that has long since gone.

[Wolter]

I think Marky is hitting close to how I think he is. It's a nostalgia for an age that never existed thing that a lot of socially conservative people have.

[Dr. Medulla]

I like a lot of his output and would consider myself a fan. I do not like his opinions even though it appears to me that he is exercising his right to free speech. Some of the things I imagine he see's as controversial are nothing less than boring and very outdated. Is he in touch with the UK or even America (as he lives in Beverly Hills) I don't think so. He is so far away from that gritty Manchester that got him writing in the first place, that being said was he ever in touch with the man on the street? All his inspirations were taken from old movies and literature.

My belief is he is not a genuine racist but see's a Britain that has long since gone.

My question, then, is what is a genuine racist? I agree that his views are wound up in a nostalgia, but isn't that nostalgia one that longs for a time before dark-skinned former colonials immigrated? Which is to say, non-white English don't belong, that England was better before "they" moved in? We rightly condemn the Archie Bunker types in North America who say they aren't racist, only that black people should stick to their own, so how are Morrissey's nostalgic longings any different?

[Wolter]

I feel I should have clarified. His racism is based on a not thought out nostalgia, and he would probably sincerely believe he isn't racist. The root vibe is closer to "things I don't like are stupid," than "people are racially inferior." of course, the end result is about the same.

[Marky Dread]

I like a lot of his output and would consider myself a fan. I do not like his opinions even though it appears to me that he is exercising his right to free speech. Some of the things I imagine he see's as controversial are nothing less than boring and very outdated. Is he in touch with the UK or even America (as he lives in Beverly Hills) I don't think so. He is so far away from that gritty Manchester that got him writing in the first place, that being said was he ever in touch with the man on the street? All his inspirations were taken from old movies and literature.

My belief is he is not a genuine racist but see's a Britain that has long since gone.

My question, then, is what is a genuine racist? I agree that his views are wound up in a nostalgia, but isn't that nostalgia one that longs for a time before dark-skinned former colonials immigrated? Which is to say, non-white English don't belong, that England was better before "they" moved in? We rightly condemn the Archie Bunker types in North America who say they aren't racist, only that black people should stick to their own, so how are Morrissey's nostalgic longings any different?

Difficult for me to say and maybe the term "genuine racist" was not very clever on my part. Here's an example my mum is not racist however when she see's a black person she still to this day refers to them as "coloured" as that was acceptable to her generation. Even after a thousand arguments with her where I say mum the term is "black" those people are proud to be black it is not offensive to use that term.

The following lyrics are from Morrissey's song "Irish Blood, English Heart".

I've been dreaming of a time when
To be English is not to be baneful
To be standing by the flag not feeling
Shameful, racist or partial.

To me he is longing to be proud to say he is an Englishman and wants to take back the flag from those who wish it to symbolise something else.

[Dr. Medulla]

I feel I should have clarified. His racism is based on a not thought out nostalgia, and he would probably sincerely believe he isn't racist. The root vibe is closer to "things I don't like are stupid," than "people are racially inferior." of course, the end result is about the same.

No, I knew what you meant. Still, it's worth noting that there aren't that many biological racists anymore. It's now couched in cultural parameters, but in a way that suggests that there are huge barriers between "us" and "them" in terms of quality and truth, yet a biology-like perception that "bad culture" kills "good culture." So, even while presentation seems less vulgar, it's still an argument for hierarchies and segregations.

[Wolter]

I feel I should have clarified. His racism is based on a not thought out nostalgia, and he would probably sincerely believe he isn't racist. The root vibe is closer to "things I don't like are stupid," than "people are racially inferior." of course, the end result is about the same.

No, I knew what you meant. Still, it's worth noting that there aren't that many biological racists anymore. It's now couched in cultural parameters, but in a way that suggests that there are huge barriers between "us" and "them" in terms of quality and truth, yet a biology-like perception that "bad culture" kills "good culture." So, even while presentation seems less vulgar, it's still an argument for hierarchies and segregations.

Oh, totally. The Venn diagram would more-or-less overlap completely between cultural xenophobes and racists, with some outlying exceptions.

[Marky Dread]

I feel I should have clarified. His racism is based on a not thought out nostalgia, and he would probably sincerely believe he isn't racist. The root vibe is closer to "things I don't like are stupid," than "people are racially inferior." of course, the end result is about the same.

No, I knew what you meant. Still, it's worth noting that there aren't that many biological racists anymore. It's now couched in cultural parameters, but in a way that suggests that there are huge barriers between "us" and "them" in terms of quality and truth, yet a biology-like perception that "bad culture" kills "good culture." So, even while presentation seems less vulgar, it's still an argument for hierarchies and segregations.

Hand me down racism? Where it is ingrained from generation to generation?

[Dr. Medulla]

Difficult for me to say and maybe the term "genuine racist" was not very clever on my part. Here's an example my mum is not racist however when she see's a black person she still to this day refers to them as "coloured" as that was acceptable to her generation. Even after a thousand arguments with her where I say mum the term is "black" those people are proud to be black it is not offensive to use that term.

Nah, that stuff isn't as important to all but the most hyper-sensitive, I'd say. Assuming people from different races, ethnicities, etc look to be sociable, we understand context. If your mother doesn't have any malice in her voice or the rest of she's saying, a black person should in all likelihood let it pass as "that's just her generation." Which doesn't make it ideal, of course, just that it's not that big of an issue—unless people are looking to pick a fight.

The following lyrics are from Morrissey's song "Irish Blood, English Heart".

I've been dreaming of a time when
To be English is not to be baneful
To be standing by the flag not feeling
Shameful, racist or partial.

To me he is longing to be proud to say he is an Englishman and wants to take back the flag from those who wish it to symbolise something else.

But when taken in the context of all the ugly things he has said about other peoples, it's hard to interpret that so charitably. One can easily spin it as he's nostalgic for a time when being English (nationalistically so) was unambiguous and that you could say whatever you wanted about, say, Indians without being called a racist and made to feel ashamed.

[Dr. Medulla]

I feel I should have clarified. His racism is based on a not thought out nostalgia, and he would probably sincerely believe he isn't racist. The root vibe is closer to "things I don't like are stupid," than "people are racially inferior." of course, the end result is about the same.

No, I knew what you meant. Still, it's worth noting that there aren't that many biological racists anymore. It's now couched in cultural parameters, but in a way that suggests that there are huge barriers between "us" and "them" in terms of quality and truth, yet a biology-like perception that "bad culture" kills "good culture." So, even while presentation seems less vulgar, it's still an argument for hierarchies and segregations.

Hand me down racism? Where it is ingrained from generation to generation?

Think of people who say things like, "Well, that's the way they are. They don't raise their kids right. They have no respect for order." It's not an argument from blood, but there's a certain essentialism there all the same so that you're intended to look at all people from that raise as less than you.