Heston's Best'uns - SLF

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Re: Heston's Best'uns - SLF

Post by Wolter » 12 Mar 2017, 9:15am

Marky Dread wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 8:21am
Low Down Low wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 5:52am
I've said it before, I'd like the album to kick off with Alternative Ulster, its the bands mission statement and has that classic, unforgettable opening riff to boot. But all told, this is just a relatively minor caveat.

The debt to The Clash is unmistakable but I would heartily contend that no punk album, not s/t or even Bollocks, carries the sense of urgency and danger that Inflammable does. That was the record that shook me and my mates out of our lethargy and disinterest concerning the N.Ireland troubles. Easy now to forget the impact of writing songs like that in the war zone that was Belfast, what a radical thing it was - even for a punk band - to cross the political divide. Much easier to keep your head down and write about silly boys chasing girls and chocolate treats (not knocking the Undertones, that's just the reality).

Wouldn't mean much without the powerful, melodic tunes, of course, and Inflammable is packed with those too.
I understand that punk was about getting real and dealing with issues that surround you. It was easy for the English bands to sing about anarchy and riots but SLF were in the real war zone. However I completely understand the stance The Undertones took also. When you are witnessing people being shot and blown up daily then you just might want some escapism.
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Re: Heston's Best'uns - SLF

Post by Low Down Low » 12 Mar 2017, 2:37pm

Marky Dread wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 8:21am
Low Down Low wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 5:52am
I've said it before, I'd like the album to kick off with Alternative Ulster, its the bands mission statement and has that classic, unforgettable opening riff to boot. But all told, this is just a relatively minor caveat.

The debt to The Clash is unmistakable but I would heartily contend that no punk album, not s/t or even Bollocks, carries the sense of urgency and danger that Inflammable does. That was the record that shook me and my mates out of our lethargy and disinterest concerning the N.Ireland troubles. Easy now to forget the impact of writing songs like that in the war zone that was Belfast, what a radical thing it was - even for a punk band - to cross the political divide. Much easier to keep your head down and write about silly boys chasing girls and chocolate treats (not knocking the Undertones, that's just the reality).

Wouldn't mean much without the powerful, melodic tunes, of course, and Inflammable is packed with those too.
I understand that punk was about getting real and dealing with issues that surround you. It was easy for the English bands to sing about anarchy and riots but SLF were in the real war zone. However I completely understand the stance The Undertones took also. When you are witnessing people being shot and blown up daily then you just might want some escapism.
Yeah, I'm not knocking the Undertones for that choice. 1970s and 1980s Northern Ireland was a notoriously tough place for artists to live. There's a Seamus Heaney poem in which a prominent Republican asks him somethign like, "why the fuck don't you write something for us?" They expected him to be a mouthpiece for "the cause" and it made Heaney even more reticent to say anything lest the nationalists subsume it for their own ends. It was pretty much the same thing with Van Morrison on the other side.

But that makes me appreciate SLF all the more. They didn't evade it, or tip-toe around it, they simply burrowed their way through all the crap and told it like it really was: society was being degraded by a bunch of bloodthirsty cunts on all sides. And people had to stop being ambivalent about it.

That might seem like an obvious message now, but 40 years ago it really needed to be said. I grew up in the peaceful, apathetic south where many took their cue on the North from the Wolfe Tones and the paeans Christy Moore sang to dead (and sometimes alive) IRA terrorists. If I'm honest I was probably an IRA sympathiser myself up to the age of 14, it was hard to live through the hunger strikes and not feel an empathetic twinge.

I'm sure we'd have copped on at some stage, like when they started to kill innocent civilians in their droves, but SLF were the first to open our eyes to that reality, certainly for me and my mates anyway. To have a rock band - a mixed group from both sides of the divide - calling out the paramilitary scum on both sides in 1979 Belfast: that was massive, absolutely massive. I'd hate to overstate what they achieved, or the impact they had, but I think it's fair to say that people in the North sometimes got seriously hurt - even shot - for far less than that.

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Re: Heston's Best'uns - SLF

Post by 101Walterton » 12 Mar 2017, 3:04pm

When IM was released I was at school and I couldn't afford it and nor could any of my mates so I had to make do with the AU single. We would go to the record shop in town at lunch time and ask them to play it but they would only play one track. Eventually I managed to get my own copy and thrashed it. To this day the intro to Johnny Was makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.
I was too young to be part of the first wave bands but still loved the Pistols and the Clash but SLF was in my time. By the time NH was released I had met the band and I saw them live several times.
I don't want to go down down the 'you had to be there to understand it' route but I think when you start to listen to a band it changes your opinions on them. You can easily tell people who got into the Clash later on or after they split by how they rate the albums.
We went mad for SLF because we were young punks who wanted our own punk band. The Pustols had gone and although I loved the Clash I wanted some angry, dangerous music for myself like NMTB and s/t.
By the time SLF evolved to release their 'London Calling' I wasn't interested. I had The Specials and Madness and I was part of the TT movement at the right time.
I put IM in the same bracket as NMTB, I don't need to hear them very often nowadays I am not an angry disillusioned teenager any more but that doesn't mean I don't love them any less.

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Re: Heston's Best'uns - SLF

Post by 101Walterton » 12 Mar 2017, 3:07pm

101Walterton wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 3:04pm
When IM was released I was at school and I couldn't afford it and nor could any of my mates so I had to make do with the AU single. We would go to the record shop in town at lunch time and ask them to play it but they would only play one track. Eventually I managed to get my own copy and thrashed it. To this day the intro to Johnny Was makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.
I was too young to be part of the first wave bands but still loved the Pistols and the Clash but SLF was in my time. By the time NH was released I had met the band and I saw them live several times.
I don't want to go down down the 'you had to be there to understand it' route but I think when you start to listen to a band* it changes your opinions on them. You can easily tell people who got into the Clash later on or after they split by how they rate the albums.
We went mad for SLF because we were young punks who wanted our own punk band. The Pistols had gone and although I loved the Clash I wanted some angry, dangerous music for myself like NMTB and s/t.
By the time SLF evolved to release their 'London Calling' I wasn't interested. I had The Specials and Madness and I was part of the TT movement at the right time.
I put IM in the same bracket as NMTB, I don't need to hear them very often nowadays I am not an angry disillusioned teenager any more but that doesn't mean I don't love them any less.

* I mean when in the bands career.

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Re: Heston's Best'uns - SLF

Post by muppet hi fi » 12 Mar 2017, 4:52pm

101Walteron wrote:
You can easily tell people who got into the Clash later on or after they split by how they rate the albums.
Not sure I understand this bit, Wally. I was into them from '77 with my import copy of s/t and gobbled up every single /12"/whatever in real time as soon as they became available at my local shops; saw them first of three times in '79. They were my band (so I fully understand your feelings about SLF in this regard).

But how does the 'obvious' Johnny Come Lately rate Clash albums?

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Re: Heston's Best'uns - SLF

Post by 101Walterton » 12 Mar 2017, 5:23pm

muppet hi fi wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 4:52pm
101Walteron wrote:
You can easily tell people who got into the Clash later on or after they split by how they rate the albums.
Not sure I understand this bit, Wally. I was into them from '77 with my import copy of s/t and gobbled up every single /12"/whatever in real time as soon as they became available at my local shops; saw them first of three times in '79. They were my band (so I fully understand your feelings about SLF in this regard).

But how does the 'obvious' Johnny Come Lately rate Clash albums?
It wasn't meant as a put down in any way. What I meant is that those who got into or first started listening to The Clash in 1977 view them differently to those that first got in to say RTC or SISOSIG etc.. You only have to look at the s/t v US import debate that often raises it's head. I'd be surprised if any that back s/t over US import heard US import first.

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Re: Heston's Best'uns - SLF

Post by muppet hi fi » 12 Mar 2017, 5:36pm

101Walterton wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 5:23pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 4:52pm
101Walteron wrote:
You can easily tell people who got into the Clash later on or after they split by how they rate the albums.
Not sure I understand this bit, Wally. I was into them from '77 with my import copy of s/t and gobbled up every single /12"/whatever in real time as soon as they became available at my local shops; saw them first of three times in '79. They were my band (so I fully understand your feelings about SLF in this regard).

But how does the 'obvious' Johnny Come Lately rate Clash albums?
It wasn't meant as a put down in any way. What I meant is that those who got into or first started listening to The Clash in 1977 view them differently to those that first got in to say RTC or SISOSIG etc.. You only have to look at the s/t v US import debate that often raises it's head. I'd be surprised if any that back s/t over US import heard US import first.
Didn't think you were putting anyone down in any way, mate. I think I know what you're saying, but not sure, as I heard UK s/t first but prefer US version because those singles are just superior songs to the ones left off (and those are all tremendous too, just not as great).

The argument seems to go that the original had a cohesiveness that the US version lacked, and I can see that to a point. My choice is based entirely on the actual material. I think that trumps 'cohesiveness' or flow or 'of a piece' listening. Maybe it was a different experience being a youth in the UK at the time. (or maybe I'm just a dumb American :mrgreen: ).

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Re: Heston's Best'uns - SLF

Post by Flex » 12 Mar 2017, 6:11pm

I'm the opposite. Heard US version first but prefer the UK version as it's the rawer, more snarling burst of pure punk rock. US version is a tremendous comp tho.
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Re: Heston's Best'uns - SLF

Post by 101Walterton » 12 Mar 2017, 6:19pm

muppet hi fi wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 5:36pm
101Walterton wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 5:23pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 4:52pm
101Walteron wrote:
You can easily tell people who got into the Clash later on or after they split by how they rate the albums.
Not sure I understand this bit, Wally. I was into them from '77 with my import copy of s/t and gobbled up every single /12"/whatever in real time as soon as they became available at my local shops; saw them first of three times in '79. They were my band (so I fully understand your feelings about SLF in this regard).

But how does the 'obvious' Johnny Come Lately rate Clash albums?
It wasn't meant as a put down in any way. What I meant is that those who got into or first started listening to The Clash in 1977 view them differently to those that first got in to say RTC or SISOSIG etc.. You only have to look at the s/t v US import debate that often raises it's head. I'd be surprised if any that back s/t over US import heard US import first.
Didn't think you were putting anyone down in any way, mate. I think I know what you're saying, but not sure, as I heard UK s/t first but prefer US version because those singles are just superior songs to the ones left off (and those are all tremendous too, just not as great).

The argument seems to go that the original had a cohesiveness that the US version lacked, and I can see that to a point. My choice is based entirely on the actual material. I think that trumps 'cohesiveness' or flow or 'of a piece' listening. Maybe it was a different experience being a youth in the UK at the time. (or maybe I'm just a dumb American :mrgreen: ).
Exactly my point. Hard to argue against US having better songs so can see why people prefer it which is why (apart from Flex) unless you loved s/t first unlikely you will prefer it to US.

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Re: Heston's Best'uns - SLF

Post by Marky Dread » 13 Mar 2017, 2:12am

muppet hi fi wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 5:36pm
101Walterton wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 5:23pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 4:52pm
101Walteron wrote:
You can easily tell people who got into the Clash later on or after they split by how they rate the albums.
Not sure I understand this bit, Wally. I was into them from '77 with my import copy of s/t and gobbled up every single /12"/whatever in real time as soon as they became available at my local shops; saw them first of three times in '79. They were my band (so I fully understand your feelings about SLF in this regard).

But how does the 'obvious' Johnny Come Lately rate Clash albums?
It wasn't meant as a put down in any way. What I meant is that those who got into or first started listening to The Clash in 1977 view them differently to those that first got in to say RTC or SISOSIG etc.. You only have to look at the s/t v US import debate that often raises it's head. I'd be surprised if any that back s/t over US import heard US import first.
Didn't think you were putting anyone down in any way, mate. I think I know what you're saying, but not sure, as I heard UK s/t first but prefer US version because those singles are just superior songs to the ones left off (and those are all tremendous too, just not as great).

The argument seems to go that the original had a cohesiveness that the US version lacked, and I can see that to a point. My choice is based entirely on the actual material. I think that trumps 'cohesiveness' or flow or 'of a piece' listening. Maybe it was a different experience being a youth in the UK at the time. (or maybe I'm just a dumb American :mrgreen: ).
Hi mate, this argument /discussion always amused me. Here's my point most of The Clash fans I know (knew at that time) bought everything the band released official or otherwise. So by the time the US version was released we had already bought all those fantastic singles that were added to the US version. So the UK release with the tracks that were later omitted became even more special. The point that is often raised that the tracks that replaced the omitted UK version are superior seems somewhat dumb when we already owned them as singles.

I remember buying the US/Canadian copy for two reasons firstly it's cover was a different colour (blue or purple if you are Dr Medulla) and the free 7" of Gates of the West/Groovy Times. These things used to matter to be able to say you had everything. Seems very silly now.
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Re: Heston's Best'uns - SLF

Post by 101Walterton » 13 Mar 2017, 2:27am

Marky Dread wrote:
13 Mar 2017, 2:12am
muppet hi fi wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 5:36pm
101Walterton wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 5:23pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 4:52pm
101Walteron wrote:
You can easily tell people who got into the Clash later on or after they split by how they rate the albums.
Not sure I understand this bit, Wally. I was into them from '77 with my import copy of s/t and gobbled up every single /12"/whatever in real time as soon as they became available at my local shops; saw them first of three times in '79. They were my band (so I fully understand your feelings about SLF in this regard).

But how does the 'obvious' Johnny Come Lately rate Clash albums?
It wasn't meant as a put down in any way. What I meant is that those who got into or first started listening to The Clash in 1977 view them differently to those that first got in to say RTC or SISOSIG etc.. You only have to look at the s/t v US import debate that often raises it's head. I'd be surprised if any that back s/t over US import heard US import first.
Didn't think you were putting anyone down in any way, mate. I think I know what you're saying, but not sure, as I heard UK s/t first but prefer US version because those singles are just superior songs to the ones left off (and those are all tremendous too, just not as great).

The argument seems to go that the original had a cohesiveness that the US version lacked, and I can see that to a point. My choice is based entirely on the actual material. I think that trumps 'cohesiveness' or flow or 'of a piece' listening. Maybe it was a different experience being a youth in the UK at the time. (or maybe I'm just a dumb American :mrgreen: ).
Hi mate, this argument /discussion always amused me. Here's my point most of The Clash fans I know (knew at that time) bought everything the band released official or otherwise. So by the time the US version was released we had already bought all those fantastic singles that were added to the US version. So the UK release with the tracks that were later omitted became even more special. The point that is often raised that the tracks that replaced the omitted UK version are superior seems somewhat dumb when we already owned them as singles.

I remember buying the US/Canadian copy for two reasons firstly it's cover was a different colour (blue or purple if you are Dr Medulla) and the free 7" of Gates of the West/Groovy Times. These things used to matter to be able to say you had everything. Seems very silly now.
I bought the US version with the free 7" even though I had the s/t already. Not sure why as both mine are green although one is a darker shade.

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Re: Heston's Best'uns - SLF

Post by Marky Dread » 13 Mar 2017, 8:32am

101Walterton wrote:
13 Mar 2017, 2:27am
Marky Dread wrote:
13 Mar 2017, 2:12am
muppet hi fi wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 5:36pm
101Walterton wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 5:23pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 4:52pm
101Walteron wrote:

Not sure I understand this bit, Wally. I was into them from '77 with my import copy of s/t and gobbled up every single /12"/whatever in real time as soon as they became available at my local shops; saw them first of three times in '79. They were my band (so I fully understand your feelings about SLF in this regard).

But how does the 'obvious' Johnny Come Lately rate Clash albums?
It wasn't meant as a put down in any way. What I meant is that those who got into or first started listening to The Clash in 1977 view them differently to those that first got in to say RTC or SISOSIG etc.. You only have to look at the s/t v US import debate that often raises it's head. I'd be surprised if any that back s/t over US import heard US import first.
Didn't think you were putting anyone down in any way, mate. I think I know what you're saying, but not sure, as I heard UK s/t first but prefer US version because those singles are just superior songs to the ones left off (and those are all tremendous too, just not as great).

The argument seems to go that the original had a cohesiveness that the US version lacked, and I can see that to a point. My choice is based entirely on the actual material. I think that trumps 'cohesiveness' or flow or 'of a piece' listening. Maybe it was a different experience being a youth in the UK at the time. (or maybe I'm just a dumb American :mrgreen: ).
Hi mate, this argument /discussion always amused me. Here's my point most of The Clash fans I know (knew at that time) bought everything the band released official or otherwise. So by the time the US version was released we had already bought all those fantastic singles that were added to the US version. So the UK release with the tracks that were later omitted became even more special. The point that is often raised that the tracks that replaced the omitted UK version are superior seems somewhat dumb when we already owned them as singles.

I remember buying the US/Canadian copy for two reasons firstly it's cover was a different colour (blue or purple if you are Dr Medulla) and the free 7" of Gates of the West/Groovy Times. These things used to matter to be able to say you had everything. Seems very silly now.
I bought the US version with the free 7" even though I had the s/t already. Not sure why as both mine are green although one is a darker shade.
The US version was green. The Canadian version was blue and both obviously had The Clash logo moved from bottom right to top right. I bought the Canadian one deliberately because of the alternate colour.
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Re: Heston's Best'uns - SLF

Post by Kory » 13 Mar 2017, 4:39pm

Flex wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 6:11pm
I'm the opposite. Heard US version first but prefer the UK version as it's the rawer, more snarling burst of pure punk rock. US version is a tremendous comp tho.
Same here—CCR was the first Clash song I ever heard, but UK version is more of a punch to the gut.
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Re: Heston's Best'uns - SLF

Post by 101Walterton » 25 Mar 2017, 6:59pm

Ok jokes aside!! I was listening to Go For It this morning and at times it is hard to believe Jakes vocals compared to NH only one year earlier. For example compare Nobody's Hero with Safe As Houses.
Whilst there is noticeable contrast I don't see this as a big deal. Jake is just singing to suit the song in the same way a guitar player plays in a way to suit the song.
On IM and NH Jake sounds angry and 'real' for want of a better term, in much the same way Joe does on s/t compared to LC.

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Re: Heston's Best'uns - SLF

Post by Heston » 26 Mar 2017, 12:08am

I saw SLF last night and they played Safe As Houses for the first time in 30 years. It was akin to a religious experience for me.
So what does Marconi playing the mamba mean? "Marconi" is referring to the radio itself. It plays a deadly snake. The snake - the mamba - is slithering from the speakers. Ready to kill greedy corporations. Ready to free the world of all that is evil, and to leave behind only the youthful idealism encompassed by the tenets of rock and roll.

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