What does Punk Rock mean to you?

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Silent Majority
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What does Punk Rock mean to you?

Post by Silent Majority »

I've been listening to punk all my life. These days I'll be more likely to listen to country or Irish or mod or soul than relentlessly track down every Misfits b-side, but the philosophy punk rock ingrained in me is a huge force in my psychological make up. I think we all take something different away from it.

For me, at it's best, it's a motivator. I come at it very much from the Paul Weller side of the tracks. It's Johnny Rotten screaming "Get off your arse!" when the Pistols played 'Anarchy In the UK' on Tony Wilson's show. It's "Don't complain/ about your useless employment/ jack it in forever tonight". It's a force of honesty, and coolness even when you're a goofy fucker who has no right to be that cool. The positivism to be able to acknowledge and change your situation. It's about how absolutely classy Joe Strummer was in dealing with people, no matter how many mistakes he may have made in private. It's a strut you get when you walk down the road to a soundtrack of 'Search and Destroy'.

Does it mean anything to you? Have you outgrown what you now find a childish ideology? Is your read on it the opposite to mine? What, if anything, has being a fan of punk music done for your life?
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Still216
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Re: What does Punk Rock mean to you?

Post by Still216 »

Silent Majority wrote: Does it mean anything to you? Have you outgrown what you now find a childish ideology? Is your read on it the opposite to mine? What, if anything, has being a fan of punk music done for your life?
The greatest impact Punk had on me, simply put, is that it influenced me to stop being apathetic about shit. To just throw one example out there, I had friends unironically say shit to me like "apathy is a new level of enlightment" years ago when their five year plans didn't go exactly as they'd hoped, and just threw in the towel (luckily they've stepped back from that ledge since then). Having the Minor Threat CD to blow that hopeless fucking path out of my mind and life at a crucial time absolutely changed my approach to personal politics. On the other hand, MT's songs inspired a lot of other people to lash out at anyone who drank or smoked (or played golf, or whatever arbitrary thing insecure people attach to at a given time). But what people do with a song or meme once it's out in the public is up to them, and a reflection of their character. I would hardly say listening to Punk (the non-nihilist strains, anyway) would change someone who's already on a negative track and has no real desire to change.

When I was younger I channeled a lot of that energy I learned from Punk into what I now see as counterproductive purposes, but in retrospect, better that than smoking weed all day, becoming a complacent misanthrope, and allowing music to enter your life only as sonic wallpaper.
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Re: What does Punk Rock mean to you?

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Punk still means mostly the same thing now as it did when I was a teenager and first found it—being pissed off is a valid response, holding a marginal position is also valid, and expertise does not trump a sincere idea.
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Chuck Mangione
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Re: What does Punk Rock mean to you?

Post by Chuck Mangione »

I find the Misfits a little overrated. And possibly the #1 best Ramones rip-off band, and yet still not all the listeners notice how big of an influence the noise out of Johnny Ramone's guitar was to them. Other bands were very influenced too, but none were as blatantly obvious as The Misfits. But, I still like em
About punk: I think you hit the nail on the spot. Joe's friendly approach to everything and ability to inspire strangers even, was punk.

A lot like dreads, punks were friendly but with a razor edge to them (no not liberty spikes!) which made them guys you don't wanna fuck with. Kind of like "I don't fuck with you, don't fuck me". I also see a lot of Reggae songs as very... punk-esque, well, in the message anyways. Just 3 popular ones from 3 popular artists: "The Harder They Come" by Jimmy Cliff (again, like the whole "I don't fuck with you don't fuck with me", but instead saying "you fuck with me, I'll fuck you back harder", "Bam Bam" by Toots and The Maytals, and "Stepping Razor" by Peter Tosh.

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Re: What does Punk Rock mean to you?

Post by eumaas »

Another cut of beef.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
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Re: What does Punk Rock mean to you?

Post by Chuck Mangione »

Motivation and "doing something about it" also is key. Hippies always were sitting on their ass begging for peace. You can only get what you want if you're ballsy enough to walk the talk. Get off your asses, quit with the bong-circles and DO SOMETHING. I think we've got back to the hippie daze when everybody "sittin' 'round watching television." The only thing different now is there wearing Snuggies while watching T.V. and now with HD-vision screens, and they don't dress like hippies much, either. There's gotta be more riots, everything's going back to how it was before 1969 or 1977. I think I feel a bigger revolt coming this time tho'.

Burning Spear wore a rastafarian colored peace shirt that had "NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE" wrapped around the peace sign. That's just about the smartest thing I've read around a peace sign. Imagine if all the people... ...COULD STOP IMAGINING AND GO OUT AND DO IT!

"You gotta be able and go out and do it for yourself 'cos no one's gonna give it to you." ...or something like that...

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Re: What does Punk Rock mean to you?

Post by Wolter »

Punk meant a lot to me when I was 17. Now I'm not sure what it means to me at 33, beyond metaphors and platitudes.

Although I still love the music.
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wmhp
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Re: What does Punk Rock mean to you?

Post by wmhp »

I agree with the good Dr.

No rules is the first rule
I loved that about punk rock.
You had to make up your own mind and form your own views, just dont be a spectator.
I'm still amazed at the lack of awareness of the kids i teach about ANY important issues that were second nature to my age group by the age of 13 or 14, totally through the lyrics and sleeve notes of punk bands. I may not have ageed with a lot of it, but at least i was exposed to it and allowed to form my own views. Dont complain..change it.

When people talk about the influence of punk on their lives, its easy to forget the most important part. HUMOUR. Punk was about anger and confrontation and alienation and boredom and frustration and.... but it was also very fucking funny. Having a laugh and taking the piss, with frivolus lyrics, bright clothes and mad hair. Its easy to forget now that punk was a joyous thing, not all black leather jackets and politics.

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Re: What does Punk Rock mean to you?

Post by CorwoodRep »

On a musical level, I just like the aesthetic - bringing back actual rock and roll, making concerts exciting again, and writing socially relevant lyrics. Now, a lot of punk bands weren't really that talented, and even the smartest of them weren't as politically important as punk kids like to think, but it was a tremendously enjoyable formula.

Punk was just a game changer for rock and roll. And now we've got a whole generation of musicians incorporating the punk aesthetic into other genres. The roots scene, especially in LA, would totally suck if it weren't for its punk undercurrent.

Parts of it pissed me off though. The punk rock ethos is important, but it's also not a license to suck at your instruments. And bands that got too politically self-conscious (I don't think the Clash had that problem, really) could be annoying just because they didn't know what they were talking about but still took themselves seriously.

Also, as a lyrics guy, I just think punk bands tended to have the best lyrics. Strummer, MacGowan, Doe/Cervenka and Jeffrey Lee Pierce are some of my favorite lyricists ever.
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eumaas
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Re: What does Punk Rock mean to you?

Post by eumaas »

Billy Joel wrote:And bands that got too politically self-conscious (I don't think the Clash had that problem, really) could be annoying just because they didn't know what they were talking about but still took themselves seriously.
I would say the Clash is the paradigm case of a clueless political band. The anarcho-punks get a lot of shit around here, but they were much more clued in than the Clash or other '77 bands. I mean, I don't agree with a lot of Conflict's politics (I'm no ALF supporter), but the fact is, the people in Crass, Conflict, etc. were dedicated activists and (very importantly) remain so. These were people who not only did the reading but also put their boots to the street where it counted.




As far as the musical elements of punk I appreciate: these days, I mostly go in for New York punk or British post-punk over British punk. This is just consonant with my preference for more avant-garde sounds. In many ways British punk was a musically conservative development. Just look at GEER, which is basically an angrier Aladdin Sane.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
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I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

eumaas
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Re: What does Punk Rock mean to you?

Post by eumaas »

Note: I think music is a lousy way to get your politics, and that many anarcho-punk fans had a shallow understanding of anarchism, and it may have negatively affected anarchism's image. However, the bands themselves were cogent and committed.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

Dr. Medulla
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Re: What does Punk Rock mean to you?

Post by Dr. Medulla »

wmhp wrote:No rules is the first rule
I loved that about punk rock.
A fine principle, but one that so many punks immediately reject(ed) in practice. As with every other movement and ideology, orthodoxy took hold and heretics rejected. Post-punk, in that respect, was more punk than punk in embracing diversity and experimentation.
When people talk about the influence of punk on their lives, its easy to forget the most important part. HUMOUR. Punk was about anger and confrontation and alienation and boredom and frustration and.... but it was also very fucking funny. Having a laugh and taking the piss, with frivolus lyrics, bright clothes and mad hair. Its easy to forget now that punk was a joyous thing, not all black leather jackets and politics.
Very true—the blackest and bleakest of humour, which is what I've always been the most comfortable with.
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CorwoodRep
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Re: What does Punk Rock mean to you?

Post by CorwoodRep »

eumaas wrote:
Billy Joel wrote:And bands that got too politically self-conscious (I don't think the Clash had that problem, really) could be annoying just because they didn't know what they were talking about but still took themselves seriously.
I would say the Clash is the paradigm case of a clueless political band. The anarcho-punks get a lot of shit around here, but they were much more clued in than the Clash or other '77 bands. I mean, I don't agree with a lot of Conflict's politics (I'm no ALF supporter), but the fact is, the people in Crass, Conflict, etc. were dedicated activists and (very importantly) remain so. These were people who not only did the reading but also put their boots to the street where it counted.
I have a lot of respect for the anarcho-punk bands, who came closest to getting political music right. They just weren't nearly as listenable (although I love Crass).

As for the Clash, I can't agree that they were the definition of a clueless political band, because ultimately their politics seemed like more of a performance/image thing. That sense of anger and discontent worked to the advantage of their songs. I'm So Bored just sounds more convincing and fun when it's about the US instead of a girl, to use a cliche example. And their righteous anger, which was nebulous and not really based on any intellectual comprehension of anything, made for some damn fine rock and roll. I don't get my political beliefs from music anyway. (And there's something about punk that's more exciting when it is ostensibly directed at social justice, some greater good, even when we know it's complete bullshit.)

To be clearer, while they may have said they were a political band, for the press and presentation aspects of doing so, I don't think they actually were. They were socially conscious but that wasn't why they got on stage or put out albums. The sense that it was engineered/acted becomes even more obvious when Clash II rolled around, with the incomprehensible bullshit Joe rants.

Aside: Lately I've noticed that the niche of punk music I actually listen to gravitates strongly toward the LA scene - and to a lesser extent New York - over the British scene. Aside from The Clash, X-Ray Spex and some early Stiff Little Fingers, I don't habitually listen to the British punk bands at all, possibly because I think they were usually full of shit and too self-conscious about the idea that they were part of a movement, or maybe just because I just don't find it entertaining. For British bands I'm usually more interested in post-punk.
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Re: What does Punk Rock mean to you?

Post by JoseUnidos »

As a visual artist, the DIY ethos of punk is something that has informed my own work for the past 30-odd years. There are no rules (or perhaps equally-important, you are free to set your own rules) and you're free to carve out your own space and find your own audience.
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Kory
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Re: What does Punk Rock mean to you?

Post by Kory »

JoseUnidos wrote:As a visual artist, the DIY ethos of punk is something that has informed my own work for the past 30-odd years. There are no rules (or perhaps equally-important, you are free to set your own rules) and you're free to carve out your own space and find your own audience.
This is my answer too, though I'm a musician. Punk informed my worldview in ways that are now integral to my personality. Realizing I could do music in my own way with my own ideas, with nobody breathing down my neck. Consequently, I'm poor, but it's a damn sight better than compromising anything that I believe in.
In addition, the confidence that comes with not caring what anybody thinks was a real boon in jr. high and beyond. Punk (specifically Lydon) gave me that, and caused a mousy young man to be one of those "head held high" types.
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