The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

General music discussion.
Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

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JennyB wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 1:22pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 12:48pm
JennyB wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 12:37pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 12:33pm
JennyB wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 12:06pm


Ugh...so I take it there is going to be a volume 2? Also, This website is named after Depeche Mode's original name! Aren't you glad I told you that?
:ugeek:
Wait, i'm a dork. Their original name was Composition of Sound, not Consequence of Sound. Damn you, Vince Clarke.
Has he done anything with the DM guys since he left or was it a total break?
Pretty much a total break. He and Martin did a collaboration called VCMG a few years back and released a couple of techno albums under that name. The more interesting part is that it was released on Mute, Daniel Miller's label. That was the label of the early DM albums. Daniel Miller was also The Normal of the original Warm Leatherette fame (and I think more people are familiar with Grace Jones' cover). Mute was also Fad Gadget's label. I could seriously talk about Mute and Daniel Miller all day long. His parents were also refugees from Nazi occupied Vienna like my nana, so I feel a special affinity toward him. Anyway, I digress. Vince has not done anything with DM proper since he left.

ETA: Mute is so fucking awesome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mute_Records
Mute was Wire's label in the 80s and 90s, and Miller did a record with Wire's Bruce and Graham under the name Duet Emmo. It ain't great, but the title track is cool.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

JennyB
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by JennyB »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 1:32pm
JennyB wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 1:22pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 12:48pm
JennyB wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 12:37pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
14 Sep 2018, 12:33pm


:ugeek:
Wait, i'm a dork. Their original name was Composition of Sound, not Consequence of Sound. Damn you, Vince Clarke.
Has he done anything with the DM guys since he left or was it a total break?
Pretty much a total break. He and Martin did a collaboration called VCMG a few years back and released a couple of techno albums under that name. The more interesting part is that it was released on Mute, Daniel Miller's label. That was the label of the early DM albums. Daniel Miller was also The Normal of the original Warm Leatherette fame (and I think more people are familiar with Grace Jones' cover). Mute was also Fad Gadget's label. I could seriously talk about Mute and Daniel Miller all day long. His parents were also refugees from Nazi occupied Vienna like my nana, so I feel a special affinity toward him. Anyway, I digress. Vince has not done anything with DM proper since he left.

ETA: Mute is so fucking awesome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mute_Records
Mute was Wire's label in the 80s and 90s, and Miller did a record with Wire's Bruce and Graham under the name Duet Emmo. It ain't great, but the title track is cool.
:cool:
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

An observation I made in class today: We were casully talking about the various types of metal—black, death, power, symphonic, thrash, etc—and I asked when metal seemed to become consumed by taxonomy. I remember the good old days when metal was about sex, Satan, and scaring parents. Why'd it get so complicated?
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

gkbill
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by gkbill »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Sep 2018, 9:02pm
An observation I made in class today: We were casully talking about the various types of metal—black, death, power, symphonic, thrash, etc—and I asked when metal seemed to become consumed by taxonomy. I remember the good old days when metal was about sex, Satan, and scaring parents. Why'd it get so complicated?
Hello,

Given what I can gather of your academic background, you should be familiar with this. It's better to be an applied behavioral sports psychologist than a psychologist. Find your niche - it's easier to be elite in a small niche. It's far too common in my discipline.

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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Wolter »

Real talk: I think metal may be the genre whose sub genres vary in sound the most. Black metal and glam metal are theoretically both metal, but only in the same way a slow loris and an orca are both mammals.
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

gkbill wrote:
22 Sep 2018, 12:03am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Sep 2018, 9:02pm
An observation I made in class today: We were casully talking about the various types of metal—black, death, power, symphonic, thrash, etc—and I asked when metal seemed to become consumed by taxonomy. I remember the good old days when metal was about sex, Satan, and scaring parents. Why'd it get so complicated?
Hello,

Given what I can gather of your academic background, you should be familiar with this. It's better to be an applied behavioral sports psychologist than a psychologist. Find your niche - it's easier to be elite in a small niche. It's far too common in my discipline.
Easier to be an unchallengeable expert when you define your expertise so narrowly as to squeeze out other competitors. It's a big reason why, I think, doctoral students go super narrow with their dissertation topic—it seemingly offers some protection from criticism while also them to plant their flag. That such narrow studies have limited value to wider audiences and bigger questions is not considered a drawback.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Wolter wrote:
22 Sep 2018, 1:41am
Real talk: I think metal may be the genre whose sub genres vary in sound the most. Black metal and glam metal are theoretically both metal, but only in the same way a slow loris and an orca are both mammals.
Sure, but to the average moron (take me, for example), how easy is it to distinguish death metal from black metal from doom metal from progressive metal (etc etc), let alone the sub-sub-genres within each of those?
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Wolter »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 Sep 2018, 6:49am
Wolter wrote:
22 Sep 2018, 1:41am
Real talk: I think metal may be the genre whose sub genres vary in sound the most. Black metal and glam metal are theoretically both metal, but only in the same way a slow loris and an orca are both mammals.
Sure, but to the average moron (take me, for example), how easy is it to distinguish death metal from black metal from doom metal from progressive metal (etc etc), let alone the sub-sub-genres within each of those?
If you were played examplars of black and death? Easily, I think. Same with doom. They are far more discrete in their purest form.

Metal had a lot of rapid evolution after the time most 40-50 year olds stopped paying attention.
”INDER LOCK THE THE KISS THREAD IVE REALISED IM A PRZE IDOOT” - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Wolter »

That is to say, it’s no different from any musical genre in that it gets all sorts of labels. But many of them are taxonomically useful, because the variety of sounds is such that someone who likes bands that sound like Crowbar is probably not going to be too keen on Blind Guardian.
”INDER LOCK THE THE KISS THREAD IVE REALISED IM A PRZE IDOOT” - Thomas Jefferson

"But the gorilla thinks otherwise!"

eumaas
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by eumaas »

There are definitely some metal microgenres that are too fine-grained in distinctiom, but the broad categories like black, death, doom etc are quite distinct. For example I like black metal but death metal leaves me cold.
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by eumaas »

Can post examples to illustrate if you like.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

I've tried discerning the distinctions, but either my tin ears or not being a metal fan in general has hindered me. Or, at least, where I can see differences, I scratch my head in regarding that an important division. My suspicion is that being a fan makes it easier and more desirable to be a divider; to a non-fan, the seeming similarities are what stand out because there isn't that interest in appreciating the finer points.

edit: Just a further bit to the above and a comparison, a really good book by Janice Radway called Reading the Romance examines romance novel readers and their motivations. One thing that struck me is how adept the readers were at identifying the distinctions between formulas and variations on the formula, stuff that the non-romance fan sees as one big interchange formula.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by revbob »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Sep 2018, 9:02pm
An observation I made in class today: We were casully talking about the various types of metal—black, death, power, symphonic, thrash, etc—and I asked when metal seemed to become consumed by taxonomy. I remember the good old days when metal was about sex, Satan, and scaring parents. Why'd it get so complicated?
Back when parents and even some clueless listeners perhaps, thought Van Halen really were Running With the Devil and you were too if you listened to them.

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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

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revbob wrote:
22 Sep 2018, 10:23am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Sep 2018, 9:02pm
An observation I made in class today: We were casully talking about the various types of metal—black, death, power, symphonic, thrash, etc—and I asked when metal seemed to become consumed by taxonomy. I remember the good old days when metal was about sex, Satan, and scaring parents. Why'd it get so complicated?
Back when parents and even some clueless listeners perhaps, thought Van Halen really were Running With the Devil and you were too if you listened to them.
Heh, there's a scholarly study about heavy metal called Running With the Devil. I don't recall the author calling Van Halen a metal band (but Eddie's technique is analyzed), but the title is kind of too good to pass up.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: The Mighty Musical Observations Thread

Post by revbob »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
22 Sep 2018, 10:31am
revbob wrote:
22 Sep 2018, 10:23am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Sep 2018, 9:02pm
An observation I made in class today: We were casully talking about the various types of metal—black, death, power, symphonic, thrash, etc—and I asked when metal seemed to become consumed by taxonomy. I remember the good old days when metal was about sex, Satan, and scaring parents. Why'd it get so complicated?
Back when parents and even some clueless listeners perhaps, thought Van Halen really were Running With the Devil and you were too if you listened to them.
Heh, there's a scholarly study about heavy metal called Running With the Devil. I don't recall the author calling Van Halen a metal band (but Eddie's technique is analyzed), but the title is kind of too good to pass up.
I used to/might still have these recordings of some crazy Christian guy. He even went as far as to call Debbie Harry satanic. He closed off that segment by saying "Call Me"? No thanks!!

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