Public Image Limited

General music discussion.
gkbill
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by gkbill » 07 Sep 2019, 12:58pm

Marky Dread wrote:
07 Sep 2019, 9:35am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
07 Sep 2019, 9:14am
Marky Dread wrote:
07 Sep 2019, 9:04am
John is painted the bad guy when the likes of Wobble and Levene left PiL but Wobble was no saint and Levene a junkie.
Of course. I only meant that they were forceful personalities in the group that battled each other. Maybe not keeping Lydon in check per se, but there was still the fiction of the band as a company of equals. Once Lydon was the last man standing, he had nobody to answer to.
Victory didn't make him a shithead but he always appeared worse when he wasn't fighting against stuff. Battle over and victory won John shouts loudest and then for years later let's everyone know.
Okay, I see what you mean. Everything sort of becomes past tense from that point, about how he was done wrong and beat the bastards.
Yep that's how I see things. John had an assured kind of us versus them arrogance at first and he said stuff against those in power that to my young ears made a lot of sense. But then after the court case it appeared to be all me me me oh clever me.
Hello,

If I could speak with John, I'd tell him a John Wooden quote I share with my students : "Whatever you do in life, surround yourself
with smart people who'll argue with you." I'd like to think John Lydon would have appreciated it.

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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Dr. Medulla » 07 Sep 2019, 1:21pm

gkbill wrote:
07 Sep 2019, 12:58pm
If I could speak with John, I'd tell him a John Wooden quote I share with my students : "Whatever you do in life, surround yourself
with smart people who'll argue with you." I'd like to think John Lydon would have appreciated it.
That's what so many people suggest went seriously awry with Michael Jackson, both artistically and pedo-wise, that he became so big that he had no one to rein in his worst instincts. Elvis, too. We should all be blessed with someone whom we trust with our lives who'll tell us what we don't want to hear at the time.
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101Walterton
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by 101Walterton » 07 Sep 2019, 6:23pm

In my opinion it is more about when Lydon should have grown up. You can get away with that behaviour when you are young especially if you are young and have a point to make but there comes a time when behaving like that as a supposed adult is just embarrassing. Not saying you have to conform or lose your passion just the way you communicate it.

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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread » 08 Sep 2019, 5:01am

101Walterton wrote:
07 Sep 2019, 6:23pm
In my opinion it is more about when Lydon should have grown up. You can get away with that behaviour when you are young especially if you are young and have a point to make but there comes a time when behaving like that as a supposed adult is just embarrassing. Not saying you have to conform or lose your passion just the way you communicate it.
Yes mate I get what you are saying. But a lot of pop stars/musicians who find fame live in a different reality to the rest of us.
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by IkarisOne » 11 Sep 2019, 3:35pm

I think Lydon and a lot of other people fall victim to the isolating lifestyle of the professional musician. It separates you from a scene, from your peers and from that healthy sense of competition. Without being around a bunch of weirdos to crib ideas from Lydon lapsed into the enthusiasms of his youth (Led Zeppelin) then recycled his band's earlier ideas (PiL Mark Whatever, with Edmonds and the studio mutts).

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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Kory » 13 Sep 2019, 12:38pm

IkarisOne wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 3:35pm
I think Lydon and a lot of other people fall victim to the isolating lifestyle of the professional musician. It separates you from a scene, from your peers and from that healthy sense of competition. Without being around a bunch of weirdos to crib ideas from Lydon lapsed into the enthusiasms of his youth (Led Zeppelin) then recycled his band's earlier ideas (PiL Mark Whatever, with Edmonds and the studio mutts).
I'm not sure I'd classify John McGeoch as a studio mutt.
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gkbill
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by gkbill » 13 Sep 2019, 3:00pm

IkarisOne wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 3:35pm
I think Lydon and a lot of other people fall victim to the isolating lifestyle of the professional musician. It separates you from a scene, from your peers and from that healthy sense of competition. Without being around a bunch of weirdos to crib ideas from Lydon lapsed into the enthusiasms of his youth (Led Zeppelin) then recycled his band's earlier ideas (PiL Mark Whatever, with Edmonds and the studio mutts).
Hello,

This is what I was referring to earlier with the John Wooden quote. It's much easier to allow yourself to be surrounded by sycophants than with people who will challenge your ideas - "Yo, John, that (lyric, music, thought - whatever) sucks - here's a better one.". Harder - yes. Better - yes. This doesn't just happen to artists. I can think of many who surround themselves completely with people who share the same opinions and manage to convince themselves they're 100% right about whatever. It's less challenging.

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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread » 13 Sep 2019, 3:10pm

gkbill wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 3:00pm
IkarisOne wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 3:35pm
I think Lydon and a lot of other people fall victim to the isolating lifestyle of the professional musician. It separates you from a scene, from your peers and from that healthy sense of competition. Without being around a bunch of weirdos to crib ideas from Lydon lapsed into the enthusiasms of his youth (Led Zeppelin) then recycled his band's earlier ideas (PiL Mark Whatever, with Edmonds and the studio mutts).
Hello,

This is what I was referring to earlier with the John Wooden quote. It's much easier to allow yourself to be surrounded by sycophants than with people who will challenge your ideas - "Yo, John, that (lyric, music, thought - whatever) sucks - here's a better one.". Harder - yes. Better - yes. This doesn't just happen to artists. I can think of many who surround themselves completely with people who share the same opinions and manage to convince themselves they're 100% right about whatever. It's less challenging.
I hear what you're saying here but Edmonds/McGeoch/Smith are not just simple "Yes men" they've had plenty of influence from their own bands and other musical commitments.
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by gkbill » 13 Sep 2019, 4:57pm

Marky Dread wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 3:10pm
gkbill wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 3:00pm
IkarisOne wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 3:35pm
I think Lydon and a lot of other people fall victim to the isolating lifestyle of the professional musician. It separates you from a scene, from your peers and from that healthy sense of competition. Without being around a bunch of weirdos to crib ideas from Lydon lapsed into the enthusiasms of his youth (Led Zeppelin) then recycled his band's earlier ideas (PiL Mark Whatever, with Edmonds and the studio mutts).
Hello,

This is what I was referring to earlier with the John Wooden quote. It's much easier to allow yourself to be surrounded by sycophants than with people who will challenge your ideas - "Yo, John, that (lyric, music, thought - whatever) sucks - here's a better one.". Harder - yes. Better - yes. This doesn't just happen to artists. I can think of many who surround themselves completely with people who share the same opinions and manage to convince themselves they're 100% right about whatever. It's less challenging.
I hear what you're saying here but Edmonds/McGeoch/Smith are not just simple "Yes men" they've had plenty of influence from their own bands and other musical commitments.
Hello,

I don't know enough about those listed. It would've been interesting to have been a fly on the wall during sessions.

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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by IkarisOne » 13 Sep 2019, 7:05pm

Kory wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 12:38pm
IkarisOne wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 3:35pm
I think Lydon and a lot of other people fall victim to the isolating lifestyle of the professional musician. It separates you from a scene, from your peers and from that healthy sense of competition. Without being around a bunch of weirdos to crib ideas from Lydon lapsed into the enthusiasms of his youth (Led Zeppelin) then recycled his band's earlier ideas (PiL Mark Whatever, with Edmonds and the studio mutts).
I'm not sure I'd classify John McGeoch as a studio mutt.
I was referring to the recent PiL.

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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by IkarisOne » 13 Sep 2019, 7:06pm

Marky Dread wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 3:10pm
gkbill wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 3:00pm
IkarisOne wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 3:35pm
I think Lydon and a lot of other people fall victim to the isolating lifestyle of the professional musician. It separates you from a scene, from your peers and from that healthy sense of competition. Without being around a bunch of weirdos to crib ideas from Lydon lapsed into the enthusiasms of his youth (Led Zeppelin) then recycled his band's earlier ideas (PiL Mark Whatever, with Edmonds and the studio mutts).
Hello,

This is what I was referring to earlier with the John Wooden quote. It's much easier to allow yourself to be surrounded by sycophants than with people who will challenge your ideas - "Yo, John, that (lyric, music, thought - whatever) sucks - here's a better one.". Harder - yes. Better - yes. This doesn't just happen to artists. I can think of many who surround themselves completely with people who share the same opinions and manage to convince themselves they're 100% right about whatever. It's less challenging.
I hear what you're saying here but Edmonds/McGeoch/Smith are not just simple "Yes men" they've had plenty of influence from their own bands and other musical commitments.
My point is they're journeymen, not so much yes men, per se. It's a different mindset.

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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Dr. Medulla » 13 Sep 2019, 7:37pm

Perhaps apropos, perhaps not, I started reading Pete Jones' memoir today.
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread » 14 Sep 2019, 4:34am

IkarisOne wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 7:06pm
Marky Dread wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 3:10pm
gkbill wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 3:00pm
IkarisOne wrote:
11 Sep 2019, 3:35pm
I think Lydon and a lot of other people fall victim to the isolating lifestyle of the professional musician. It separates you from a scene, from your peers and from that healthy sense of competition. Without being around a bunch of weirdos to crib ideas from Lydon lapsed into the enthusiasms of his youth (Led Zeppelin) then recycled his band's earlier ideas (PiL Mark Whatever, with Edmonds and the studio mutts).
Hello,

This is what I was referring to earlier with the John Wooden quote. It's much easier to allow yourself to be surrounded by sycophants than with people who will challenge your ideas - "Yo, John, that (lyric, music, thought - whatever) sucks - here's a better one.". Harder - yes. Better - yes. This doesn't just happen to artists. I can think of many who surround themselves completely with people who share the same opinions and manage to convince themselves they're 100% right about whatever. It's less challenging.
I hear what you're saying here but Edmonds/McGeoch/Smith are not just simple "Yes men" they've had plenty of influence from their own bands and other musical commitments.
My point is they're journeymen, not so much yes men, per se. It's a different mindset.
Yeah I like that much better. I doubt anyone tells Lydon what to write or has much if anything to do with lyrics or themes. But all are very good musicians and John is not really a musician. So the voice of PiL yet not the sound of PiL. I think in the mid 80s when they slipped into that Simple Minds fronted by Mark E Smith style they lost any kind of danger and became corporate rock. The last two albums are somewhere between the 70s and 80s PiL styles/sound and I doubt we could ask for more really.
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread » 14 Sep 2019, 5:56am

I see the PiL on Check it Out clip of Chant / interview that Heston posted to YouTube is now on the God Save the Sex Pistols web page. Good work Heston. :approve:
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Heston » 14 Sep 2019, 6:05am

Marky Dread wrote:
14 Sep 2019, 5:56am
I see the PiL on Check it Out clip of Chant / interview that Heston posted to YouTube is now on the God Save the Sex Pistols web page. Good work Heston. :approve:
I was wondering where all the hits were coming from.
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