Public Image Limited

General music discussion.
Marky Dread
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread » 28 Mar 2017, 2:56am

revbob wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 9:21pm
Lydon has always been first and foremost someone who likes to get a rise out of people and preferably while being in the spotlight.
This is true but the older he gets the more thoughtless he appears to be. I guess we'll never really know just what his genuine views are. While he appears on chat shows and plays up to his Rotten persona. He's like a panto villain.
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muppet hi fi
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by muppet hi fi » 28 Mar 2017, 6:53am

Dunster wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 7:00pm
Silent Majority wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 6:36pm
Mate, I make minimum wage.
Well you have great taste in music. I would encourage everyone to question their own ideas and where they came from. Nearly 100% of the time they are someone else's ideas that you adopted for some reason or another. Original thoughts are very rare indeed.

Johnny Rotten is right that Farage and Trump are in some form a new anti-establishment. My logic is that EU is a step towards global government and then tyranny. Big government with a central office in Brussels does not work in Europe.

The EU was formed in response to the structure of the USA. The upper echelon EUers had a great big boner about how successful the USA model seemed to work and wanted their own "Megacountry". The best model is smaller units government that solve problems locally and these small units of governments have competition among themselves.

The Swiss model gives some hints:

How many internal civil wars has North America had since 1865? How many internal civil wars has Europe had before 1860 and since 1865?

The European Union was and is highly beneficial to all western Europe and much of eastern Europe. And the United Kingdom. And the unity of Scotland and Wales with England is also mostly beneficial to the majority of all three countries. Northern Ireland is another matter, but so far...(fingers crossed).

For all it's many and serious faults, the USA does have the democratic republic model to recommend it, lest we forget two world wars started on the European continent.

Mimi
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Mimi » 28 Mar 2017, 8:30am

revbob wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 9:21pm
Lydon has always been first and foremost someone who likes to get a rise out of people and preferably while being in the spotlight.
Sounds about right.

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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by coffeepotman » 28 Mar 2017, 9:26am

Agreed. I have always liked the guy and listened to what he has to say but maybe not agreed with him all the time. I have a hard time with the whole I'm British working class but live and own homes in Malibu thing. He made some great music and some meh music, he's said some brilliant things and has said some stupid things.

I really don't bother with him at all anymore but there was a time when I though differently, we were both much younger then.

Silent Majority
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Silent Majority » 28 Mar 2017, 9:53am

Dunster wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 7:00pm
Silent Majority wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 6:36pm
Mate, I make minimum wage.
Well you have great taste in music. I would encourage everyone to question their own ideas and where they came from. Nearly 100% of the time they are someone else's ideas that you adopted for some reason or another. Original thoughts are very rare indeed.

Johnny Rotten is right that Farage and Trump are in some form a new anti-establishment. My logic is that EU is a step towards global government and then tyranny. Big government with a central office in Brussels does not work in Europe.
Whatever issues there may have been for the poor in the hyper-capitalist EU (and there were many) the discussion in the lead up to the vote - certainly from Farage's side - centered on immigration and May's commitment to Trump-like exclusionary borders and ending freedom of movement has only moved the xenophobia forward.

Rich racists like Donald Trump and Nigel Farage are the most establishment a person can be. As Flex pointed out, the working class voted no more for either than people of means. Lydon's confused support for the media-created working class Brexit and Trump victory is just evidence of lazy thinking from some one who should know better and is holding onto an identity he is incapable of understanding.

There is no chance we'll be getting a Swiss style federalised government. More power to the corporations, less to the workers is going to be the pattern, especially if a right or centrist party are in the driving seat during the negotiations.
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Dr. Medulla » 28 Mar 2017, 10:11am

Silent Majority wrote:
28 Mar 2017, 9:53am
Rich racists like Donald Trump and Nigel Farage are the most establishment a person can be. … More power to the corporations, less to the workers is going to be the pattern, especially if a right or centrist party are in the driving seat during the negotiations.
I couldn't agree more. It's odd how we're supposedly all cynical enough not to believe what politicians say on the campaign trail relative to what they'll do in office, yet now we're to believe that Trump et al are genuinely anti-establishment, scaring the entrenched centres of power? Unless you believe that the poor, women, and non-white minorities are the real sinister holders of power—hi, Vince!—the establishment has nothing to fear from these people save for triggering a genuine popular revolt. A billionaire president with a cabinet made up of billionaires is no threat to the rich. Trump and Farage won on the anxiety and resentment bred of neoliberalism, but that doesn't mean they'll be doing anything to relieve that genuine worry. I have no doubt whatsoever that it won't take long for Lydon's silly words (as well as any other celebrity pretending to be a populist) to be shown as on the very wrong side of history.
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Marky Dread
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread » 28 Mar 2017, 10:36am

I was 12 years old in 1976 when I first heard AitUK. It was released in December if I remember correctly. I was dreaming about what I was going to get for Xmas at the time. After I heard the single I thought it was thrilling and dangerous from that maniacal chuckle at the beginning to the Destroy finale. I loved it because I knew my parents would hate it and it felt like it was my music. I didn't have a clue what anarchy meant I don't even think I had heard the word before. So I grabbed a dictionary and looked it up. I knew the lyrics were incendiary because of the line about the I.R.A. who were mentioned on the news most evenings in the same way that ISIS are talked about now.

I knew very little about politics at that age (Probably don't know much more now) but I certainly didn't become politicized after hearing the record in any way . To me it was just this amazing rock n roll record that was sticking two fingers up at the establishment and the previous generation in the same way The Who had done with "My Generation" (A single I also owned) .

When GStQ was released in 1977 it too felt like another two fingered salute to the establishment. The obvious target being the royal family and with everyone being preoccupied with the upcoming silver Jubilee. Rotten and the band claim the song was not written with this is mind and had been written some time earlier as No Future of course. The song did have some different lyrics originally. McLaren and Reid had different ideas of course and the timing was essential. Being dropped by A&M then quickly signing to Virgin. The original A&M single had just a simple die cast company sleeve. But when Virgin got Jamie Reid to design a new sleeve where he used the Queens portrait with a safety pin in her mouth this caused huge anger. The Pistols John and Paul were attacked separately. The record is brilliant and one Of The greatest ever made in my opinion. But the anger o thef time surrounding that record was as much to with it's record sleeve and timing of the Jubillee as it's lyrical content .
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Silent Majority » 28 Mar 2017, 10:38am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Mar 2017, 10:11am
Silent Majority wrote:
28 Mar 2017, 9:53am
Rich racists like Donald Trump and Nigel Farage are the most establishment a person can be. … More power to the corporations, less to the workers is going to be the pattern, especially if a right or centrist party are in the driving seat during the negotiations.
I couldn't agree more. It's odd how we're supposedly all cynical enough not to believe what politicians say on the campaign trail relative to what they'll do in office, yet now we're to believe that Trump et al are genuinely anti-establishment, scaring the entrenched centres of power? Unless you believe that the poor, women, and non-white minorities are the real sinister holders of power—hi, Vince!—the establishment has nothing to fear from these people save for triggering a genuine popular revolt. A billionaire president with a cabinet made up of billionaires is no threat to the rich. Trump and Farage won on the anxiety and resentment bred of neoliberalism, but that doesn't mean they'll be doing anything to relieve that genuine worry. I have no doubt whatsoever that it won't take long for Lydon's silly words (as well as any other celebrity pretending to be a populist) to be shown as on the very wrong side of history.
This shit is far from hypothetical now. If, as conmen and idiots said, Trump was going to be a friend to the workers, then he wouldn't want to charge them 3/4s of their salary for health insurance. Plus, literally every other move the dumb, aggressive, intolerant fuck has made in office. When people talk about his working class credentials, they just mean his stupidity, bullying, and racism. Fuck that insulting bullshit.
'But also: hey dude, you can just go looking for more glasses. They're all free now. '

www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Dr. Medulla » 28 Mar 2017, 11:05am

Silent Majority wrote:
28 Mar 2017, 10:38am
This shit is far from hypothetical now. If, as conmen and idiots said, Trump was going to be a friend to the workers, then he wouldn't want to charge them 3/4s of their salary for health insurance. Plus, literally every other move the dumb, aggressive, intolerant fuck has made in office. When people talk about his working class credentials, they just mean his stupidity, bullying, and racism. Fuck that insulting bullshit.
Excellent point that isn't made often—there is a thinly veiled insult at the working class in emphasizing his worst qualities as what makes him appealing to the masses.
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

Marky Dread
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread » 28 Mar 2017, 11:52am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Mar 2017, 11:05am
Silent Majority wrote:
28 Mar 2017, 10:38am
This shit is far from hypothetical now. If, as conmen and idiots said, Trump was going to be a friend to the workers, then he wouldn't want to charge them 3/4s of their salary for health insurance. Plus, literally every other move the dumb, aggressive, intolerant fuck has made in office. When people talk about his working class credentials, they just mean his stupidity, bullying, and racism. Fuck that insulting bullshit.
Excellent point that isn't made often—there is a thinly veiled insult at the working class in emphasizing his worst qualities as what makes him appealing to the masses.
He hasn't been working class for a very long time. The fact that he associates himself as such and believes his current ramblings as working class statements is the biggest insult of all. The problem I have with him is just how much of his crap does he truly believe. It's like he feels he has the right to say just about anything he likes without being taken to task. He is very similar to Morrissey in this.

Oh wait you were talking about Trump.
Last edited by Marky Dread on 28 Mar 2017, 3:32pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dunster
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Dunster » 28 Mar 2017, 2:20pm

Interesting thread ... to each his own I guess.

In the end, like one of the great songs says:

Know You're Right

:mrgreen:

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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by revbob » 28 Mar 2017, 7:46pm

I'm always dumbfounded by people who want to see millionaires and billionaires as "outsiders". You don't get that rich by being anything but a total insider.

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Dr. Medulla » 28 Mar 2017, 8:01pm

revbob wrote:
28 Mar 2017, 7:46pm
I'm always dumbfounded by people who want to see millionaires and billionaires as "outsiders". You don't get that rich by being anything but a total insider.
Because we get seduced by manners. We are, quite remarkably, rather Victorian in that we still equate how people behave in public as necessarily indicative of character. Formal eloquence and dress connotes sophistication and intelligence and either integrity or sinister elitism; crudeness and casualness is down to earth and working class and honest. It was a lot easier to be wary of elites when they felt obliged to maintain airs to stand above us helots. Once elites accepted popular culture, both sincerely and for image purposes, we lost a quick and dirty way of distinguishing who the rats were.

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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by revbob » 28 Mar 2017, 8:32pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
28 Mar 2017, 8:01pm
revbob wrote:
28 Mar 2017, 7:46pm
I'm always dumbfounded by people who want to see millionaires and billionaires as "outsiders". You don't get that rich by being anything but a total insider.
Because we get seduced by manners. We are, quite remarkably, rather Victorian in that we still equate how people behave in public as necessarily indicative of character. Formal eloquence and dress connotes sophistication and intelligence and either integrity or sinister elitism; crudeness and casualness is down to earth and working class and honest. It was a lot easier to be wary of elites when they felt obliged to maintain airs to stand above us helots. Once elites accepted popular culture, both sincerely and for image purposes, we lost a quick and dirty way of distinguishing who the rats were.

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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Flex » 28 Mar 2017, 8:35pm

This is my favorite pic of that stupid fuck:
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