Public Image Limited

General music discussion.
Silent Majority
User avatar
Singer-Songwriter Nancy
Posts: 12601
Joined: 10 Nov 2008, 8:28pm
Location: A republic of mind
Contact:

Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Silent Majority » 27 Mar 2017, 3:25pm

Marky Dread wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 1:54pm
Silent Majority wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 1:47pm
I think the Pistols 100% revelled in ideology and political ideas and John's softened and confused attitude to authority and bigoted, powerful wankers like Farage and Trump is a big step away from the ideas that he infused into what would have been a fun and simple rock n roll band without him.
Yeah I wonder just how many real anarchist became as such after hearing the Sex Pistols. Or how many anti royalist only exist because of hearing the Sex Pistols. You are giving those songs way to much thought.

Now if we were talking about Crass you might have a point.
I never thought the Pistols were anarchists. A left leaning band of outlaws was the most starry eyed I got when considering the band when I was a teenager. But Lydon's curious, questioning nature, rage at what was wrong in the world around him and straight up protest songs like God Save the Queen were the thrilling part of a rock n roll band that hinted at a whole other world beyond the mundane. The writer of Bodies is considering a difficult issue from a number of points and is enjoying his own subversive pose. Lydon 2017 seems to have lost the ability to consider in any real terms and has frankly become an apologist for racists and fascists. Just as he can hold any position his sodden, rich brain likes, I think we can feel disappointed at the devolution of the thinking of some body who was once extremely inspiring to us. If the Pistols records didn't have any of the attitude and counter cultural positioning that first compelled me, they'd be dull as dishwater.
'But also: hey dude, you can just go looking for more glasses. They're all free now. '

www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 35426
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread » 27 Mar 2017, 3:26pm

Mimi wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 3:23pm
Marky Dread wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 2:06pm
Flex wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 1:57pm
I know they weren't actually anarchists, but I think their music was still politically motivated in at least one dimension. If it was all an act, it was a compelling enough act that there was/is value in taking that dimension of their music seriously (if not literally).
I know plenty who bought their records and I personally don't know one single person who bought into any agitprop version of the Sex Pistols as some kind political force. They changed music and fashion greatly but no one's political view. They were pop songs not political manifestos.
Maybe the UK was different, but I get a sense that over here they were considered more political than not. Pop or not, AitUK is a strong message to a young mind. At my age now, I see what you're saying. Teenage me thought very differently, though.
I could clearly see why in the US they may well be considered that way. "Anarchy in the UK" is very different to Blitzkrieg Bop. I've never once thought about destroying the passer-by. ;)
Image
Image

Mimi
User avatar
Goddess of the Underworld
Posts: 5016
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:36pm
Location: Down in the pit

Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Mimi » 27 Mar 2017, 3:28pm

Marky Dread wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 3:26pm
Mimi wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 3:23pm
Marky Dread wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 2:06pm
Flex wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 1:57pm
I know they weren't actually anarchists, but I think their music was still politically motivated in at least one dimension. If it was all an act, it was a compelling enough act that there was/is value in taking that dimension of their music seriously (if not literally).
I know plenty who bought their records and I personally don't know one single person who bought into any agitprop version of the Sex Pistols as some kind political force. They changed music and fashion greatly but no one's political view. They were pop songs not political manifestos.
Maybe the UK was different, but I get a sense that over here they were considered more political than not. Pop or not, AitUK is a strong message to a young mind. At my age now, I see what you're saying. Teenage me thought very differently, though.
I could clearly see why in the US they may well be considered that way. "Anarchy in the UK" is very different to Blitzkrieg Bop. I've never once thought about destroying the passer-by. ;)
What?! Turn your punk card in now, you SRP. lol

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 35426
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread » 27 Mar 2017, 3:35pm

Silent Majority wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 3:25pm
Marky Dread wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 1:54pm
Silent Majority wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 1:47pm
I think the Pistols 100% revelled in ideology and political ideas and John's softened and confused attitude to authority and bigoted, powerful wankers like Farage and Trump is a big step away from the ideas that he infused into what would have been a fun and simple rock n roll band without him.
Yeah I wonder just how many real anarchist became as such after hearing the Sex Pistols. Or how many anti royalist only exist because of hearing the Sex Pistols. You are giving those songs way to much thought.

Now if we were talking about Crass you might have a point.
I never thought the Pistols were anarchists. A left leaning band of outlaws was the most starry eyed I got when considering the band when I was a teenager. But Lydon's curious, questioning nature, rage at what was wrong in the world around him and straight up protest songs like God Save the Queen were the thrilling part of a rock n roll band that hinted at a whole other world beyond the mundane. The writer of Bodies is considering a difficult issue from a number of points and is enjoying his own subversive pose. Lydon 2017 seems to have lost the ability to consider in any real terms and has frankly become an apologist for racists and fascists. Just as he can hold any position his sodden, rich brain likes, I think we can feel disappointed at the devolution of the thinking of some body who was once extremely inspiring to us. If the Pistols records didn't have any of the attitude and counter cultural positioning that first compelled me, they'd be dull as dishwater.
Rotten took aim at those who were considered untouchable like the Royals or a big conglomerate like E.M.I. They were just pot shots from his pen. I doubt even he thought he could really change any political landscape. As for John now his contrary act does wear really thin at times. In that interview that Flex posted he seems just to be delighted at Farage for having a go at Bob Geldof as to what Farage actually stands for. Personally when I see shit like that I take it with a pinch of salt. To suggest that he knows that Trump is not a racist is about as stupid as he can be, just try telling the Mexicans who Trump wants to divide by a huge wall. Yeah John ...please don't be waiting for me.

Regarding the song "Bodies" that's quite a difficult one really. Rotten does not suggest he's pro or anti abortion in his lyric. I remember an interview he gave where he stated "I don''t think any man has the right to tell a woman what she should and shouldn't do with her body". Interestingly the song was originally called "Body". The song was a sad observation of Pauline who frequented Pistols gigs with her dead foetus in a carrier bag. She did live in a tree house at a mental institution.
Last edited by Marky Dread on 27 Mar 2017, 3:49pm, edited 4 times in total.
Image
Image

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 35426
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread » 27 Mar 2017, 3:36pm

Mimi wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 3:28pm
Marky Dread wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 3:26pm
Mimi wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 3:23pm
Marky Dread wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 2:06pm
Flex wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 1:57pm
I know they weren't actually anarchists, but I think their music was still politically motivated in at least one dimension. If it was all an act, it was a compelling enough act that there was/is value in taking that dimension of their music seriously (if not literally).
I know plenty who bought their records and I personally don't know one single person who bought into any agitprop version of the Sex Pistols as some kind political force. They changed music and fashion greatly but no one's political view. They were pop songs not political manifestos.
Maybe the UK was different, but I get a sense that over here they were considered more political than not. Pop or not, AitUK is a strong message to a young mind. At my age now, I see what you're saying. Teenage me thought very differently, though.
I could clearly see why in the US they may well be considered that way. "Anarchy in the UK" is very different to Blitzkrieg Bop. I've never once thought about destroying the passer-by. ;)
What?! Turn your punk card in now, you SRP. lol
SRP Softie (non) Rebellious Punk.
Image
Image

Mimi
User avatar
Goddess of the Underworld
Posts: 5016
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:36pm
Location: Down in the pit

Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Mimi » 27 Mar 2017, 3:37pm

Marky Dread wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 3:36pm
Mimi wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 3:28pm
Marky Dread wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 3:26pm
Mimi wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 3:23pm
Marky Dread wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 2:06pm


I know plenty who bought their records and I personally don't know one single person who bought into any agitprop version of the Sex Pistols as some kind political force. They changed music and fashion greatly but no one's political view. They were pop songs not political manifestos.
Maybe the UK was different, but I get a sense that over here they were considered more political than not. Pop or not, AitUK is a strong message to a young mind. At my age now, I see what you're saying. Teenage me thought very differently, though.
I could clearly see why in the US they may well be considered that way. "Anarchy in the UK" is very different to Blitzkrieg Bop. I've never once thought about destroying the passer-by. ;)
What?! Turn your punk card in now, you SRP. lol
SRP Softie (non) Rebellious Punk.
:lol: :lol:

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 35426
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread » 27 Mar 2017, 5:15pm

God Save the Queen may just be the anti political song.stating that british politics had failed and we were facing no future if we continue down the same old path. Suggesting we have all become morons in England's dreaming. A reality check.
Image
Image

Dunster
User avatar
Dirty Punk
Posts: 79
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 6:06pm
Location: Garageland

Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Dunster » 27 Mar 2017, 6:32pm

Rotten was simply promoting his new song book. He said he was with the working class (knowing he is no longer really one of them). You see, Brexit and the the break of the EU is a response to the poor (working class) getting shafted. The EU experiment has caused a great deal of poverty in the poorer states.

Champagne Clash Fans just can't see outside their own bubble. :mrgreen:

Silent Majority
User avatar
Singer-Songwriter Nancy
Posts: 12601
Joined: 10 Nov 2008, 8:28pm
Location: A republic of mind
Contact:

Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Silent Majority » 27 Mar 2017, 6:36pm

Dunster wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 6:32pm
Rotten was simply promoting his new song book. He said he was with the working class (knowing he is no longer really one of them). You see, Brexit and the the break of the EU is a response to the poor (working class) getting shafted. The EU experiment has caused a great deal of poverty in the poorer states.

Champagne Clash Fans just can't see outside their own bubble. :mrgreen:
Mate, I make minimum wage.
'But also: hey dude, you can just go looking for more glasses. They're all free now. '

www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

Flex
User avatar
Mechano-Man of the Future
Posts: 25034
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:50pm
Location: The Information Superhighway!
Contact:

Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Flex » 27 Mar 2017, 6:36pm

I don't know what the rates are in England, but in the US most working class people don't vote. So saying he's with the working class on one hand, and then praising Trump, doesn't fit. If he was accurately reflecting the working class, he'd reject all of it. But he's a rich, fat fuck so he doesn't know what the fuck he's on about.
"I live inside my own heart, Matt Damon." - Prince

Sous les pavés, la plage.

Pex Lives!

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 35426
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread » 27 Mar 2017, 6:38pm

Dunster wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 6:32pm
Rotten was simply promoting his new song book. He said he was with the working class (knowing he is no longer really one of them). You see, Brexit and the the break of the EU is a response to the poor (working class) getting shafted. The EU experiment has caused a great deal of poverty in the poorer states.

Champagne Clash Fans just can't see outside their own bubble. :mrgreen:
John is so working class that he's priced that book so fucking high that it's cheaper to get a mortgage. 😐
Image
Image

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 35426
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread » 27 Mar 2017, 6:43pm

Flex wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 6:36pm
I don't know what the rates are in England, but in the US most working class people don't vote. So saying he's with the working class on one hand, and then praising Trump, doesn't fit. If he was accurately reflecting the working class, he'd reject all of it. But he's a rich, fat fuck so he doesn't know what the fuck he's on about.
I don't really know how the class system works in the US and I'm probably nieve in thinking it's similar to the UK?

But hasn't Trump given a voice to those who don't usually bother to vote because they believe nobody really represented them before. This appears to me to be what Clinton underestimated and gave Trump the upper hand. Is this correct Flex?
Image
Image

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 35426
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread » 27 Mar 2017, 6:47pm

Silent Majority wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 6:36pm
Dunster wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 6:32pm
Rotten was simply promoting his new song book. He said he was with the working class (knowing he is no longer really one of them). You see, Brexit and the the break of the EU is a response to the poor (working class) getting shafted. The EU experiment has caused a great deal of poverty in the poorer states.

Champagne Clash Fans just can't see outside their own bubble. :mrgreen:
Mate, I make minimum wage.
Please stop posting here you simply don't belong. This board is for the wealthy only you peasant. ;)
Image
Image

Dunster
User avatar
Dirty Punk
Posts: 79
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 6:06pm
Location: Garageland

Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Dunster » 27 Mar 2017, 7:00pm

Silent Majority wrote:
27 Mar 2017, 6:36pm
Mate, I make minimum wage.
Well you have great taste in music. I would encourage everyone to question their own ideas and where they came from. Nearly 100% of the time they are someone else's ideas that you adopted for some reason or another. Original thoughts are very rare indeed.

Johnny Rotten is right that Farage and Trump are in some form a new anti-establishment. My logic is that EU is a step towards global government and then tyranny. Big government with a central office in Brussels does not work in Europe.

The EU was formed in response to the structure of the USA. The upper echelon EUers had a great big boner about how successful the USA model seemed to work and wanted their own "Megacountry". The best model is smaller units government that solve problems locally and these small units of governments have competition among themselves.

The Swiss model gives some hints:


revbob
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 5300
Joined: 16 Jun 2008, 12:31pm
Location: The Frozen Tundra
Contact:

Re: Public Image Limited

Post by revbob » 27 Mar 2017, 9:21pm

Lydon has always been first and foremost someone who likes to get a rise out of people and preferably while being in the spotlight.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 5 guests