Public Image Limited

General music discussion.
Dr. Medulla
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 5:39am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2019, 6:43pm
That clip also reinforces how immune to history the band was at that point. It could have been released this year for all a person would know. It's just full-on weirdo music apart from anything around it.
This is what set them apart at this time. That attitude that said "we'll make whatever music we want to and are capable of" fuck the current trend and what the record label thinks or if it has any commercial appeal. Of course you have to take into account it was Johnny Rottens new group so he could have released the sound of him taking a shot and it would've sold. Which seems all the more remarkable that "Public Image" was/is such an amazing first single.
Which he tried a decade later with TWIN, and learned that, nope, the sound of him dropping a load will no longer sell. But, yeah, how would a record company know how to market that sound? Without being able to say, Look what Johnny Rotten is up to now, the audience for that kind of record is microscopic.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

IkarisOne
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by IkarisOne »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 6:30am
Marky Dread wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 5:39am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2019, 6:43pm
That clip also reinforces how immune to history the band was at that point. It could have been released this year for all a person would know. It's just full-on weirdo music apart from anything around it.
This is what set them apart at this time. That attitude that said "we'll make whatever music we want to and are capable of" fuck the current trend and what the record label thinks or if it has any commercial appeal. Of course you have to take into account it was Johnny Rottens new group so he could have released the sound of him taking a shot and it would've sold. Which seems all the more remarkable that "Public Image" was/is such an amazing first single.
Which he tried a decade later with TWIN, and learned that, nope, the sound of him dropping a load will no longer sell. But, yeah, how would a record company know how to market that sound? Without being able to say, Look what Johnny Rotten is up to now, the audience for that kind of record is microscopic.
We were already into the grunge invasion by the end there and PiL were non entities in the UK for quite a while by then. mcGeoch said they did all of 2 shows in the UK for that tour.

ONe thing I should add though is that PiL were pretty crap as a live act in the Wobble days. Did they even rehearse for this appearance?

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Public Image Limited

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IkarisOne wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 12:20pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 6:30am
Marky Dread wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 5:39am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2019, 6:43pm
That clip also reinforces how immune to history the band was at that point. It could have been released this year for all a person would know. It's just full-on weirdo music apart from anything around it.
This is what set them apart at this time. That attitude that said "we'll make whatever music we want to and are capable of" fuck the current trend and what the record label thinks or if it has any commercial appeal. Of course you have to take into account it was Johnny Rottens new group so he could have released the sound of him taking a shot and it would've sold. Which seems all the more remarkable that "Public Image" was/is such an amazing first single.
Which he tried a decade later with TWIN, and learned that, nope, the sound of him dropping a load will no longer sell. But, yeah, how would a record company know how to market that sound? Without being able to say, Look what Johnny Rotten is up to now, the audience for that kind of record is microscopic.
We were already into the grunge invasion by the end there and PiL were non entities in the UK for quite a while by then. mcGeoch said they did all of 2 shows in the UK for that tour.
Sorry, I meant how to market Metal Box, not TWIN. I think it was Clinton Heylin who described post-Levene PiL as the Johnny Rotten Cabaret, which, while still sometimes pretty good, was no longer something to anticipate. Once he did those Pistols reunion tours, he's fundamentally agreed to be a past-tense figure, a perverse punk nostalgia.
ONe thing I should add though is that PiL were pretty crap as a live act in the Wobble days. Did they even rehearse for this appearance?
The biggest difference (and this is a general observation; there are always exceptions) between American and UK punk/post-punk bands is that Americans fully embraced the Protestant work ethic and worked like insane bastards to succeed, whether it's hours rehearsing and touring or economizing wherever possible, building labels and distribution networks. UK bands were far more casual about the whole thing. How much of that is national character, quality of the welfare state, or something else, I dunno, but it's striking as hell how much more fundamentally entrepreneurial the American underground was. Like they couldn't help drinking Reaganade.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Kory
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 12:42pm
IkarisOne wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 12:20pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 6:30am
Marky Dread wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 5:39am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
31 Jul 2019, 6:43pm
That clip also reinforces how immune to history the band was at that point. It could have been released this year for all a person would know. It's just full-on weirdo music apart from anything around it.
This is what set them apart at this time. That attitude that said "we'll make whatever music we want to and are capable of" fuck the current trend and what the record label thinks or if it has any commercial appeal. Of course you have to take into account it was Johnny Rottens new group so he could have released the sound of him taking a shot and it would've sold. Which seems all the more remarkable that "Public Image" was/is such an amazing first single.
Which he tried a decade later with TWIN, and learned that, nope, the sound of him dropping a load will no longer sell. But, yeah, how would a record company know how to market that sound? Without being able to say, Look what Johnny Rotten is up to now, the audience for that kind of record is microscopic.
We were already into the grunge invasion by the end there and PiL were non entities in the UK for quite a while by then. mcGeoch said they did all of 2 shows in the UK for that tour.
Sorry, I meant how to market Metal Box, not TWIN. I think it was Clinton Heylin who described post-Levene PiL as the Johnny Rotten Cabaret, which, while still sometimes pretty good, was no longer something to anticipate. Once he did those Pistols reunion tours, he's fundamentally agreed to be a past-tense figure, a perverse punk nostalgia.
ONe thing I should add though is that PiL were pretty crap as a live act in the Wobble days. Did they even rehearse for this appearance?
The biggest difference (and this is a general observation; there are always exceptions) between American and UK punk/post-punk bands is that Americans fully embraced the Protestant work ethic and worked like insane bastards to succeed, whether it's hours rehearsing and touring or economizing wherever possible, building labels and distribution networks. UK bands were far more casual about the whole thing. How much of that is national character, quality of the welfare state, or something else, I dunno, but it's striking as hell how much more fundamentally entrepreneurial the American underground was. Like they couldn't help drinking Reaganade.
IT'S THE AMERICAN DREAM
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

IkarisOne
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by IkarisOne »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 12:42pm

The biggest difference (and this is a general observation; there are always exceptions) between American and UK punk/post-punk bands is that Americans fully embraced the Protestant work ethic and worked like insane bastards to succeed, whether it's hours rehearsing and touring or economizing wherever possible, building labels and distribution networks. UK bands were far more casual about the whole thing. How much of that is national character, quality of the welfare state, or something else, I dunno, but it's striking as hell how much more fundamentally entrepreneurial the American underground was. Like they couldn't help drinking Reaganade.
I think this is largely true with many of the PP bands, but there were certainly notable exceptions: Gang of Four, Au Pairs and Monochrome Set come to mind off the top of my head.

If you go more mersh, PP-derived bands like The Cure, Siouxsie, KJ, Comsats, Bauhaus were pretty shit-hot live acts. And though I've yet to hear an adequate recording, pre Commercial Zone PiL were tighter than motherfuck when I saw them.

Marky Dread
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread »

IkarisOne wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 4:25pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 12:42pm

The biggest difference (and this is a general observation; there are always exceptions) between American and UK punk/post-punk bands is that Americans fully embraced the Protestant work ethic and worked like insane bastards to succeed, whether it's hours rehearsing and touring or economizing wherever possible, building labels and distribution networks. UK bands were far more casual about the whole thing. How much of that is national character, quality of the welfare state, or something else, I dunno, but it's striking as hell how much more fundamentally entrepreneurial the American underground was. Like they couldn't help drinking Reaganade.
I think this is largely true with many of the PP bands, but there were certainly notable exceptions: Gang of Four, Au Pairs and Monochrome Set come to mind off the top of my head.

If you go more mersh, PP-derived bands like The Cure, Siouxsie, KJ, Comsats, Bauhaus were pretty shit-hot live acts. And though I've yet to hear an adequate recording, pre Commercial Zone PiL were tighter than motherfuck when I saw them.
I'll chime in with Pete Jones being a better bassist than Wobble for live shows.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

IkarisOne
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by IkarisOne »

Marky Dread wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 4:51pm
IkarisOne wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 4:25pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 12:42pm

The biggest difference (and this is a general observation; there are always exceptions) between American and UK punk/post-punk bands is that Americans fully embraced the Protestant work ethic and worked like insane bastards to succeed, whether it's hours rehearsing and touring or economizing wherever possible, building labels and distribution networks. UK bands were far more casual about the whole thing. How much of that is national character, quality of the welfare state, or something else, I dunno, but it's striking as hell how much more fundamentally entrepreneurial the American underground was. Like they couldn't help drinking Reaganade.
I think this is largely true with many of the PP bands, but there were certainly notable exceptions: Gang of Four, Au Pairs and Monochrome Set come to mind off the top of my head.

If you go more mersh, PP-derived bands like The Cure, Siouxsie, KJ, Comsats, Bauhaus were pretty shit-hot live acts. And though I've yet to hear an adequate recording, pre Commercial Zone PiL were tighter than motherfuck when I saw them.
I'll chime in with Pete Jones being a better bassist than Wobble for live shows.

Any listenable recordings ever show up out of that tour, Marko?

Marky Dread
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread »

IkarisOne wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 4:54pm
Marky Dread wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 4:51pm
IkarisOne wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 4:25pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 12:42pm

The biggest difference (and this is a general observation; there are always exceptions) between American and UK punk/post-punk bands is that Americans fully embraced the Protestant work ethic and worked like insane bastards to succeed, whether it's hours rehearsing and touring or economizing wherever possible, building labels and distribution networks. UK bands were far more casual about the whole thing. How much of that is national character, quality of the welfare state, or something else, I dunno, but it's striking as hell how much more fundamentally entrepreneurial the American underground was. Like they couldn't help drinking Reaganade.
I think this is largely true with many of the PP bands, but there were certainly notable exceptions: Gang of Four, Au Pairs and Monochrome Set come to mind off the top of my head.

If you go more mersh, PP-derived bands like The Cure, Siouxsie, KJ, Comsats, Bauhaus were pretty shit-hot live acts. And though I've yet to hear an adequate recording, pre Commercial Zone PiL were tighter than motherfuck when I saw them.
I'll chime in with Pete Jones being a better bassist than Wobble for live shows.

Any listenable recordings ever show up out of that tour, Marko?
East Side Club, Philadelphia, USA, March 4th 1983 is a pretty decent audience recording.

The best I have is probably: Toad's Place, New Haven, CT,
USA, April 4th, 1983
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Heston
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Heston »

Why aren't we still talking about "You Matter To Me" by Peter Criss?
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Heston wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 5:48pm
Why aren't we still talking about "You Matter To Me" by Peter Criss?
Sometimes the best way of dealing with deep emotional trauma is to repress it.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Marky Dread
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread »

Heston wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 5:48pm
Why aren't we still talking about "You Matter To Me" by Peter Criss?
We never listened to a word that you said
We only saw you for the make up and hair
Or maybe the interest goes so much deeper
It must be the KISS t shirt you wear
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Heston
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Heston »

Marky Dread wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 6:26pm
Heston wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 5:48pm
Why aren't we still talking about "You Matter To Me" by Peter Criss?
We never listened to a word that you said
We only saw you for the make up and hair
Or maybe the interest goes so much deeper
It must be the KISS t shirt you wear
If Simmons had been ousted from KISS in '78 his next project would have been called Pubic Image.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Heston wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 6:31pm
Marky Dread wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 6:26pm
Heston wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 5:48pm
Why aren't we still talking about "You Matter To Me" by Peter Criss?
We never listened to a word that you said
We only saw you for the make up and hair
Or maybe the interest goes so much deeper
It must be the KISS t shirt you wear
If Simmons had been ousted from KISS in '78 his next project would have been called Pubic Lice Inflamamage.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Marky Dread
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 6:36pm
Heston wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 6:31pm
Marky Dread wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 6:26pm
Heston wrote:
01 Aug 2019, 5:48pm
Why aren't we still talking about "You Matter To Me" by Peter Criss?
We never listened to a word that you said
We only saw you for the make up and hair
Or maybe the interest goes so much deeper
It must be the KISS t shirt you wear
If Simmons had been ousted from KISS in '78 his next project would have been called Pubic Lice Inflamamage.
:scared: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck:
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Public Image Limited

Post by Dr. Medulla »

"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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