Interesting Take on the Beatles

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Dr. Medulla » 20 Jun 2008, 8:47pm

Heston wrote:They're still rooted in the blues though, the Beatles queered the pitch by adding music hall and classical influences to their songs. Without being too muso, songs like "She Loves You" were incorporating unexpected chord changes and harmonies to a well worn template.
What you're describing, tho, is innovation. Tremendous innovation in terms of its effect, especially on other musicians, but it's not original. The template was still intact, with others able to emphasize or deemphasize what the Beatles brought to the form. This isn't a bad thing or a criticism—there isn't much room (if any) for originality. If you really want to trace things back enough, the R & B musicians of the 50s weren't original, but modifying prior forms. None of this in any way diminishes what the Beatles created and left behind.
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Flex
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Flex » 20 Jun 2008, 8:49pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:What you're describing, tho, is innovation. Tremendous innovation in terms of its effect, especially on other musicians, but it's not original. The template was still intact, with others able to emphasize or deemphasize what the Beatles brought to the form. This isn't a bad thing or a criticism—there isn't much room (if any) for originality. If you really want to trace things back enough, the R & B musicians of the 50s weren't original, but modifying prior forms. None of this in any way diminishes what the Beatles created and left behind.
Oh great, you along with threecoffins hate the Beatles too.

edit: clarification for who is doing all the hating
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Dr. Medulla » 20 Jun 2008, 8:51pm

Flex wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:What you're describing, tho, is innovation. Tremendous innovation in terms of its effect, especially on other musicians, but it's not original. The template was still intact, with others able to emphasize or deemphasize what the Beatles brought to the form. This isn't a bad thing or a criticism—there isn't much room (if any) for originality. If you really want to trace things back enough, the R & B musicians of the 50s weren't original, but modifying prior forms. None of this in any way diminishes what the Beatles created and left behind.
Oh great, you along with threecoffins hate the Beatles too.

edit: clarification for who is doing all the hating
Wait, aren't we arguing that white people are better musicians than black people?
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Heston
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Heston » 20 Jun 2008, 8:51pm

threecoffins wrote:
Flex wrote:
threecoffins wrote:Again, you're right. I never was looking to deny the Beatles their due. All I'm saying is that previous acts had laid the groundwork for British R&B bands breaking away from the American paradigm. I'm also saying that without the Beatles, an inherently adventurous band like the Who would have still ventured away from the blues, although perhaps an traditionalist band like the Stones wouldn't, for lack of being forced in that direction.
Don't forget Bob Dylan back in the States, he likely would have made Highway 61 Revisited (or something) whether the Beatles existed or not. He's generally considered (and I would consider him) the other half of the puzzle. I don't know what that adds to the discussion, other than the basic point that the Beatles aren't the Alpha and the Omega, which isn't meant to disrespect their achievements in any way.
That's all I'm saying as well.
Agreed too.
So what does Marconi playing the mamba mean? "Marconi" is referring to the radio itself. It plays a deadly snake. The snake - the mamba - is slithering from the speakers. Ready to kill greedy corporations. Ready to free the world of all that is evil, and to leave behind only the youthful idealism encompassed by the tenets of rock and roll.

Heston
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Heston » 20 Jun 2008, 8:52pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
Heston wrote:They're still rooted in the blues though, the Beatles queered the pitch by adding music hall and classical influences to their songs. Without being too muso, songs like "She Loves You" were incorporating unexpected chord changes and harmonies to a well worn template.
What you're describing, tho, is innovation. Tremendous innovation in terms of its effect, especially on other musicians, but it's not original. The template was still intact, with others able to emphasize or deemphasize what the Beatles brought to the form. This isn't a bad thing or a criticism—there isn't much room (if any) for originality. If you really want to trace things back enough, the R & B musicians of the 50s weren't original, but modifying prior forms. None of this in any way diminishes what the Beatles created and left behind.
You're right again.
So what does Marconi playing the mamba mean? "Marconi" is referring to the radio itself. It plays a deadly snake. The snake - the mamba - is slithering from the speakers. Ready to kill greedy corporations. Ready to free the world of all that is evil, and to leave behind only the youthful idealism encompassed by the tenets of rock and roll.

Flex
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Flex » 20 Jun 2008, 8:54pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:Wait, aren't we arguing that white people are better musicians than black people?
Hey, you're right. Welcome to America, my friend!
Image
"I live inside my own heart, Matt Damon." - Prince

Sous les pavés, la plage.

Pex Lives!

Heston
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Heston » 20 Jun 2008, 8:56pm

I still detect a bit of an anti-Limey stance here.
Heaven forfend we could have showed you how it's done. :mrgreen:
So what does Marconi playing the mamba mean? "Marconi" is referring to the radio itself. It plays a deadly snake. The snake - the mamba - is slithering from the speakers. Ready to kill greedy corporations. Ready to free the world of all that is evil, and to leave behind only the youthful idealism encompassed by the tenets of rock and roll.

Flex
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Flex » 20 Jun 2008, 8:57pm

On a related note:
Image
"I live inside my own heart, Matt Damon." - Prince

Sous les pavés, la plage.

Pex Lives!

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Dr. Medulla » 20 Jun 2008, 8:59pm

Flex wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:Wait, aren't we arguing that white people are better musicians than black people?
Hey, you're right. Welcome to America, my friend!
Image
As David Cross said of the Atlanta suburb where he grew up, it stays white out here later than anywhere else.
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Dr. Medulla » 20 Jun 2008, 9:01pm

Heston wrote:I still detect a bit of an anti-Limey stance here.
Heaven forfend we could have showed you how it's done. :mrgreen:
My record collection is massively unbalanced towards English and Scottish bands. Be it pop or punk, I've always found the British approach more to my liking.







Nevertheless: soccer.
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Dr. Medulla » 20 Jun 2008, 9:02pm

Flex wrote:On a related note:
Image
That should be adapted to a boot compilation, title and cover intact.
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Heston
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Heston » 20 Jun 2008, 9:04pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
Heston wrote:I still detect a bit of an anti-Limey stance here.
Heaven forfend we could have showed you how it's done. :mrgreen:
My record collection is massively unbalanced towards English and Scottish bands. Be it pop or punk, I've always found the British approach more to my liking
Good on you Squire. All's well that ends well.
So what does Marconi playing the mamba mean? "Marconi" is referring to the radio itself. It plays a deadly snake. The snake - the mamba - is slithering from the speakers. Ready to kill greedy corporations. Ready to free the world of all that is evil, and to leave behind only the youthful idealism encompassed by the tenets of rock and roll.

Flex
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Flex » 20 Jun 2008, 9:05pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
Heston wrote:I still detect a bit of an anti-Limey stance here.
Heaven forfend we could have showed you how it's done. :mrgreen:
My record collection is massively unbalanced towards English and Scottish bands. Be it pop or punk, I've always found the British approach more to my liking.
I probably like more american music that Hooky, but consider that the other two bands being discussed as capable innovation even if the Beatles didn't exist were the Stones and the Who. Both of whom were, last time I checked, British.

I guess eventually I brought up Bob Dylan, but he was approaching rock n roll from a pretty different angle than the Beatles et al. Two different parts of the equation (fused by later groups like the Byrds).
"I live inside my own heart, Matt Damon." - Prince

Sous les pavés, la plage.

Pex Lives!

Heston
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Heston » 20 Jun 2008, 9:06pm

Flex wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
Heston wrote:I still detect a bit of an anti-Limey stance here.
Heaven forfend we could have showed you how it's done. :mrgreen:
My record collection is massively unbalanced towards English and Scottish bands. Be it pop or punk, I've always found the British approach more to my liking.
I probably like more american music that Hooky, but consider that the other two bands being discussed as capable innovation even if the Beatles didn't exist were the Stones and the Who. Both of whom were, last time I checked, British.

I guess eventually I brought up Bob Dylan, but he was approaching rock n roll from a pretty different angle than the Beatles et al. Two different parts of the equation (fused by later groups like the Byrds).
I need closure before I go to bed.
OK, I'm wrong.
So what does Marconi playing the mamba mean? "Marconi" is referring to the radio itself. It plays a deadly snake. The snake - the mamba - is slithering from the speakers. Ready to kill greedy corporations. Ready to free the world of all that is evil, and to leave behind only the youthful idealism encompassed by the tenets of rock and roll.

threecoffins
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by threecoffins » 20 Jun 2008, 9:08pm

Flex wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
Heston wrote:I still detect a bit of an anti-Limey stance here.
Heaven forfend we could have showed you how it's done. :mrgreen:
My record collection is massively unbalanced towards English and Scottish bands. Be it pop or punk, I've always found the British approach more to my liking.
I probably like more american music that Hooky, but consider that the other two bands being discussed as capable innovation even if the Beatles didn't exist were the Stones and the Who. Both of whom were, last time I checked, British.

I guess eventually I brought up Bob Dylan, but he was approaching rock n roll from a pretty different angle than the Beatles et al. Two different parts of the equation (fused by later groups like the Byrds).
I for one, like all international expressions of American pop music forms. ;)

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