What you're describing, tho, is innovation. Tremendous innovation in terms of its effect, especially on other musicians, but it's not original. The template was still intact, with others able to emphasize or deemphasize what the Beatles brought to the form. This isn't a bad thing or a criticism—there isn't much room (if any) for originality. If you really want to trace things back enough, the R & B musicians of the 50s weren't original, but modifying prior forms. None of this in any way diminishes what the Beatles created and left behind.Heston wrote:They're still rooted in the blues though, the Beatles queered the pitch by adding music hall and classical influences to their songs. Without being too muso, songs like "She Loves You" were incorporating unexpected chord changes and harmonies to a well worn template.
Interesting Take on the Beatles
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles
Oh great, you along with threecoffins hate the Beatles too.Dr. Medulla wrote:What you're describing, tho, is innovation. Tremendous innovation in terms of its effect, especially on other musicians, but it's not original. The template was still intact, with others able to emphasize or deemphasize what the Beatles brought to the form. This isn't a bad thing or a criticism—there isn't much room (if any) for originality. If you really want to trace things back enough, the R & B musicians of the 50s weren't original, but modifying prior forms. None of this in any way diminishes what the Beatles created and left behind.
edit: clarification for who is doing all the hating
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles
Wait, aren't we arguing that white people are better musicians than black people?Flex wrote:Oh great, you along with threecoffins hate the Beatles too.Dr. Medulla wrote:What you're describing, tho, is innovation. Tremendous innovation in terms of its effect, especially on other musicians, but it's not original. The template was still intact, with others able to emphasize or deemphasize what the Beatles brought to the form. This isn't a bad thing or a criticism—there isn't much room (if any) for originality. If you really want to trace things back enough, the R & B musicians of the 50s weren't original, but modifying prior forms. None of this in any way diminishes what the Beatles created and left behind.
edit: clarification for who is doing all the hating
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles
Agreed too.threecoffins wrote:That's all I'm saying as well.Flex wrote:Don't forget Bob Dylan back in the States, he likely would have made Highway 61 Revisited (or something) whether the Beatles existed or not. He's generally considered (and I would consider him) the other half of the puzzle. I don't know what that adds to the discussion, other than the basic point that the Beatles aren't the Alpha and the Omega, which isn't meant to disrespect their achievements in any way.threecoffins wrote:Again, you're right. I never was looking to deny the Beatles their due. All I'm saying is that previous acts had laid the groundwork for British R&B bands breaking away from the American paradigm. I'm also saying that without the Beatles, an inherently adventurous band like the Who would have still ventured away from the blues, although perhaps an traditionalist band like the Stones wouldn't, for lack of being forced in that direction.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles
You're right again.Dr. Medulla wrote:What you're describing, tho, is innovation. Tremendous innovation in terms of its effect, especially on other musicians, but it's not original. The template was still intact, with others able to emphasize or deemphasize what the Beatles brought to the form. This isn't a bad thing or a criticism—there isn't much room (if any) for originality. If you really want to trace things back enough, the R & B musicians of the 50s weren't original, but modifying prior forms. None of this in any way diminishes what the Beatles created and left behind.Heston wrote:They're still rooted in the blues though, the Beatles queered the pitch by adding music hall and classical influences to their songs. Without being too muso, songs like "She Loves You" were incorporating unexpected chord changes and harmonies to a well worn template.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles
Hey, you're right. Welcome to America, my friend!Dr. Medulla wrote:Wait, aren't we arguing that white people are better musicians than black people?
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
- Heston
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles
I still detect a bit of an anti-Limey stance here.
Heaven forfend we could have showed you how it's done.
Heaven forfend we could have showed you how it's done.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles
On a related note:
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles
As David Cross said of the Atlanta suburb where he grew up, it stays white out here later than anywhere else.Flex wrote:Hey, you're right. Welcome to America, my friend!Dr. Medulla wrote:Wait, aren't we arguing that white people are better musicians than black people?
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles
My record collection is massively unbalanced towards English and Scottish bands. Be it pop or punk, I've always found the British approach more to my liking.Heston wrote:I still detect a bit of an anti-Limey stance here.
Heaven forfend we could have showed you how it's done.
Nevertheless: soccer.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles
That should be adapted to a boot compilation, title and cover intact.Flex wrote:On a related note:
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles
Good on you Squire. All's well that ends well.Dr. Medulla wrote:My record collection is massively unbalanced towards English and Scottish bands. Be it pop or punk, I've always found the British approach more to my likingHeston wrote:I still detect a bit of an anti-Limey stance here.
Heaven forfend we could have showed you how it's done.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles
I probably like more american music that Hooky, but consider that the other two bands being discussed as capable innovation even if the Beatles didn't exist were the Stones and the Who. Both of whom were, last time I checked, British.Dr. Medulla wrote:My record collection is massively unbalanced towards English and Scottish bands. Be it pop or punk, I've always found the British approach more to my liking.Heston wrote:I still detect a bit of an anti-Limey stance here.
Heaven forfend we could have showed you how it's done.
I guess eventually I brought up Bob Dylan, but he was approaching rock n roll from a pretty different angle than the Beatles et al. Two different parts of the equation (fused by later groups like the Byrds).
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
Pex Lives!
- Heston
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles
I need closure before I go to bed.Flex wrote:I probably like more american music that Hooky, but consider that the other two bands being discussed as capable innovation even if the Beatles didn't exist were the Stones and the Who. Both of whom were, last time I checked, British.Dr. Medulla wrote:My record collection is massively unbalanced towards English and Scottish bands. Be it pop or punk, I've always found the British approach more to my liking.Heston wrote:I still detect a bit of an anti-Limey stance here.
Heaven forfend we could have showed you how it's done.
I guess eventually I brought up Bob Dylan, but he was approaching rock n roll from a pretty different angle than the Beatles et al. Two different parts of the equation (fused by later groups like the Byrds).
OK, I'm wrong.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles
I for one, like all international expressions of American pop music forms.Flex wrote:I probably like more american music that Hooky, but consider that the other two bands being discussed as capable innovation even if the Beatles didn't exist were the Stones and the Who. Both of whom were, last time I checked, British.Dr. Medulla wrote:My record collection is massively unbalanced towards English and Scottish bands. Be it pop or punk, I've always found the British approach more to my liking.Heston wrote:I still detect a bit of an anti-Limey stance here.
Heaven forfend we could have showed you how it's done.
I guess eventually I brought up Bob Dylan, but he was approaching rock n roll from a pretty different angle than the Beatles et al. Two different parts of the equation (fused by later groups like the Byrds).