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Re: Punk … for credit
Posted: 20 Jan 2023, 4:03pm
by Kory
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 10:24pm
Flex wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 10:17pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 7:08pm
Kory wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 6:56pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 6:17pm
I told the student that I passed her description onto some friends and she got suitably embarrassed. But I assured her, she’s not wrong in describing a certain meathead variety of punk fan.
Have you taught them about Oi yet?
Ha! That actually came up and I gave a very quick description of it.
You mean how great it is?
I respectfully withheld personal assessment. I think it’s healthy for students to dismiss it and move on by their own experience.
I did play some DK while making a larger point about aesthetics—it was a set up for something else; DK was not my core point—and, damn, the younger generation got no respect for Jello. I was on the verge of taking things personallly.
No respect aesthetically, or had you discussed his politics and so on?
Re: Punk … for credit
Posted: 20 Jan 2023, 4:22pm
by Dr. Medulla
Kory wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 4:03pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 10:24pm
Flex wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 10:17pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 7:08pm
Kory wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 6:56pm
Have you taught them about Oi yet?
Ha! That actually came up and I gave a very quick description of it.
You mean how great it is?
I respectfully withheld personal assessment. I think it’s healthy for students to dismiss it and move on by their own experience.
I did play some DK while making a larger point about aesthetics—it was a set up for something else; DK was not my core point—and, damn, the younger generation got no respect for Jello. I was on the verge of taking things personallly.
No respect aesthetically, or had you discussed his politics and so on?
It was touched on, but that wasn't the point. I played a concert clip of "Police Truck" and asked them to identify what made it punk, in their view, and then I played Drug Store Romeos' "Frame of Reference" to ask whether that could be considered punk and why. The goal was to kick at the stereotypical aesthetics of punk as loud, fast, kinda violent and shift to ideas of simplicity and deconstruction of celebrity and artifice. But along the way, no, not a whole lot of love for DK. Which is neither here nor there to me as I'm more interested in encouraging them to think more expansively about punk more as practice than results.
Re: Punk … for credit
Posted: 20 Jan 2023, 4:29pm
by Kory
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 4:22pm
Kory wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 4:03pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 10:24pm
Flex wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 10:17pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 7:08pm
Ha! That actually came up and I gave a very quick description of it.
You mean how great it is?
I respectfully withheld personal assessment. I think it’s healthy for students to dismiss it and move on by their own experience.
I did play some DK while making a larger point about aesthetics—it was a set up for something else; DK was not my core point—and, damn, the younger generation got no respect for Jello. I was on the verge of taking things personallly.
No respect aesthetically, or had you discussed his politics and so on?
It was touched on, but that wasn't the point. I played a concert clip of "Police Truck" and asked them to identify what made it punk, in their view, and then I played Drug Store Romeos' "Frame of Reference" to ask whether that could be considered punk and why. The goal was to kick at the stereotypical aesthetics of punk as loud, fast, kinda violent and shift to ideas of simplicity and deconstruction of celebrity and artifice. But along the way, no, not a whole lot of love for DK. Which is neither here nor there to me as I'm more interested in encouraging them to think more expansively about punk more as practice than results.
I think not liking DK is pretty punk.
Re: Punk … for credit
Posted: 20 Jan 2023, 4:32pm
by revbob
Kory wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 4:29pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 4:22pm
Kory wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 4:03pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 10:24pm
Flex wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 10:17pm
You mean how great it is?
I respectfully withheld personal assessment. I think it’s healthy for students to dismiss it and move on by their own experience.
I did play some DK while making a larger point about aesthetics—it was a set up for something else; DK was not my core point—and, damn, the younger generation got no respect for Jello. I was on the verge of taking things personallly.
No respect aesthetically, or had you discussed his politics and so on?
It was touched on, but that wasn't the point. I played a concert clip of "Police Truck" and asked them to identify what made it punk, in their view, and then I played Drug Store Romeos' "Frame of Reference" to ask whether that could be considered punk and why. The goal was to kick at the stereotypical aesthetics of punk as loud, fast, kinda violent and shift to ideas of simplicity and deconstruction of celebrity and artifice. But along the way, no, not a whole lot of love for DK. Which is neither here nor there to me as I'm more interested in encouraging them to think more expansively about punk more as practice than results.
I think not liking DK is pretty punk.
Doc's class is just a bunch of Swifties.
Re: Punk … for credit
Posted: 20 Jan 2023, 4:37pm
by Dr. Medulla
revbob wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 4:32pm
Kory wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 4:29pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 4:22pm
Kory wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 4:03pm
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑19 Jan 2023, 10:24pm
I respectfully withheld personal assessment. I think it’s healthy for students to dismiss it and move on by their own experience.
I did play some DK while making a larger point about aesthetics—it was a set up for something else; DK was not my core point—and, damn, the younger generation got no respect for Jello. I was on the verge of taking things personallly.
No respect aesthetically, or had you discussed his politics and so on?
It was touched on, but that wasn't the point. I played a concert clip of "Police Truck" and asked them to identify what made it punk, in their view, and then I played Drug Store Romeos' "Frame of Reference" to ask whether that could be considered punk and why. The goal was to kick at the stereotypical aesthetics of punk as loud, fast, kinda violent and shift to ideas of simplicity and deconstruction of celebrity and artifice. But along the way, no, not a whole lot of love for DK. Which is neither here nor there to me as I'm more interested in encouraging them to think more expansively about punk more as practice than results.
I think not liking DK is pretty punk.
Doc's class is just a bunch of Swifties.
As has been standard for all three years, no actual punk fans in the class. So I'm not dealing with people who think they know everything. Instead, it's working from stereotypes and encouraging a more nuanced view. After the first class, people are already seeing a more complex and contradictory picture. As I always say, confusion is a good thing.
Re: Punk … for credit
Posted: 26 Feb 2023, 2:38pm
by Dr. Medulla
While searching for some stuff by a scholar named Alastair Gordon, I found a couple collections of essays (scholarly) on punk, esp. anarcho-punk, free to download:
https://www.academia.edu/4128948/The_Ae ... tics_Music
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/To ... Mexico.pdf
Re: Punk … for credit
Posted: 24 Mar 2023, 8:39am
by Dr. Medulla
One of my students went for a walk by the river with her mom, who saw some hooded mergansers and said, "Those look like punk ducks!"
You know those assholes like The Exploited.
Re: Punk … for credit
Posted: 24 Mar 2023, 9:05am
by Marky Dread
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑24 Mar 2023, 8:39am
One of my students went for a walk by the river with her mom, who saw some hooded mergansers and said, "Those look like punk ducks!"
You know those assholes like The Exploited.
Or Rancid.
Re: Punk … for credit
Posted: 24 Mar 2023, 9:02pm
by Flex
Re: Punk … for credit
Posted: 24 Mar 2023, 9:12pm
by Marky Dread
Actually those two are Plasmatics fans.
Re: Punk … for credit
Posted: 24 Mar 2023, 9:16pm
by Flex
No doubt how doc's students view the subject matter:
Re: Punk … for credit
Posted: 25 Mar 2023, 6:15am
by Dr. Medulla
Flex wrote: ↑24 Mar 2023, 9:16pm
No doubt how doc's students view the subject matter:
Only when I mention a band that they've never heard of from The Ancient Times.
Re: Punk … for credit
Posted: 25 Mar 2023, 8:21am
by Silent Majority
Flex wrote: ↑
No doubt how doc's students view the subject matter:
Been to those shows, catching the first wave while we can. A bit of an honour to have the chance, really.
Re: Punk … for credit
Posted: 20 Apr 2023, 1:19pm
by Dr. Medulla
While looking at some late submissions for the course and reflecting a bit on the conversations about straight edge—the current class and previous ones—I'm a bit surprised how harsh people are towards it. That is, they focus on all taboos and the rigidity, but not the positives of inner discipline and an explicitly critical stance toward modern life. I don't disagree much with the criticisms of sXe that students raise, but there is some appeal to the structures and purposes behind it. It seems to me the difficulty in social change, esp. when talking about privileged groups, is that no one likes to think about what they'd have to give up to generate meaningful equality and fairness. Somehow our advantages and their effects can be maintained even as others gain. Anyway, an observation.
Re: Punk … for credit
Posted: 20 Apr 2023, 1:39pm
by Flex
Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑20 Apr 2023, 1:19pm
While looking at some late submissions for the course and reflecting a bit on the conversations about straight edge—the current class and previous ones—I'm a bit surprised how harsh people are towards it. That is, they focus on all taboos and the rigidity, but not the positives of inner discipline and an explicitly critical stance toward modern life. I don't disagree much with the criticisms of sXe that students raise, but there is some appeal to the structures and purposes behind it. It seems to me the difficulty in social change, esp. when talking about privileged groups, is that no one likes to think about what they'd have to give up to generate meaningful equality and fairness. Somehow our advantages and their effects can be maintained even as others gain. Anyway, an observation.
Interesting. As I think I've said here, although I'm no longer straight edge (and as the lifers would say, "if you aren't now, then you never were"), i thought it was a really positive force in my life when I was into it. Gave a sense of community and purpose that felt more self-improving than self-destructive. I think people really, really resent ever hearing that something they do might bad for them personally or to, like, civilization or the planet. People really want to be able to save themselves and the world just by using the "correct" credit card.