Music opinion/question of the week...

General music discussion.
muppet hi fi
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by muppet hi fi » 04 Aug 2019, 2:15pm

Marky Dread wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 3:39am
Inder wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 1:59am
What about the Bob-less Replacements?
Still a great band even with the loss of such a character. One of the band's that still managed to be awesome even with loss of a key member.
Absolutely. Slim was a much better and more well rounded musician than Bob and perfectly suited the direction the band was headed in from their very inception (see "If Only You Were Lonely", b-side of their debut single as evidence). Even Chris Mars quitting before their final tour had little impact on their sound, although Paul and Tommy being sober on that tour probably had an impact on their overall vibe live - and for the better, regardless of cretins whining that they wanted to see the band drunk and falling apart. Those kinds of people never "got it" from the get go.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by drowninghere » 04 Aug 2019, 2:28pm

The House of Love without Terry Bickers were still the House of Love I suppose but lost the magic

The Pixies without Kim Deal

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by IkarisOne » 04 Aug 2019, 3:54pm

muppet hi fi wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 2:15pm
Marky Dread wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 3:39am
Inder wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 1:59am
What about the Bob-less Replacements?
Still a great band even with the loss of such a character. One of the band's that still managed to be awesome even with loss of a key member.
Absolutely. Slim was a much better and more well rounded musician than Bob and perfectly suited the direction the band was headed in from their very inception (see "If Only You Were Lonely", b-side of their debut single as evidence). Even Chris Mars quitting before their final tour had little impact on their sound, although Paul and Tommy being sober on that tour probably had an impact on their overall vibe live - and for the better, regardless of cretins whining that they wanted to see the band drunk and falling apart. Those kinds of people never "got it" from the get go.
It's about vibe. Bob Stinson kept Westerberg's mopey downbeat inclinations in check. Hence you go from Pleased to Meet Me-- Bobless but demoed during his tenure-- to Don't Tell a Soul.

Which, IMO, totally blows.

Same phenomenon as Thayil and Cornell and Copeland and Sting.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by muppet hi fi » 04 Aug 2019, 4:32pm

IkarisOne wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 3:54pm
It's about vibe. Bob Stinson kept Westerberg's mopey downbeat inclinations in check. Hence you go from Pleased to Meet Me-- Bobless but demoed during his tenure-- to Don't Tell a Soul.

Which, IMO, totally blows.
That's true, but the band was moving so fast from the start - absorbing/internalizing Weterberg's (and Jesperson's) influences so quickly that Bob got left in the dust ideas and creativity-wise. He became sort of a Brian Jones without the eclectic instrumental side: couldn't write, sing, and his guitaring became a one-trick pony. Only live did he matter greatly, and Paul started to see him - hypocritically - as a liability, off-stage as well. The band was always more about - and was going to be about - the songs and "classic" arrangements than the early speed-demon trashing or Bobby's ,ahem, eccentric guitar playing (brilliant and unique though it was).

Me, I love 'Don't Tell a Soul'. But then you knew I would. ;) So CK, you may (or may not) be interested in this, out September 27.
Matt Wallace's original mix before Chris Lord-Alge got his mits on it, plus Tony Berg's aborted sessions, Tom Waits collaborations, and the full '89 Milwaukee 'Inconcerated' gig.
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Last edited by muppet hi fi on 05 Aug 2019, 1:01am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by IkarisOne » 04 Aug 2019, 11:46pm

muppet hi fi wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 4:32pm
IkarisOne wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 3:54pm
It's about vibe. Bob Stinson kept Westerberg's mopey downbeat inclinations in check. Hence you go from Pleased to Meet Me-- Bobless but demoed during his tenure-- to Don't Tell a Soul.

Which, IMO, totally blows.
That's true, but the band was moving so fast from the start - absorbing/internalizing Weterberg's (and Jesperson's) influences so quickly that Bob got left in the dust ideas and creativity-wise. He became sort of a Brian Jones without the eclectic instrumental side: couldn't write, sing, and his guitaring became a one-trick pony. Only live did he matter greatly, and Paul started to see him - hypocritically - as a liability, off-stage as well. The band was always more about - and was going to be about - the songs and "classic" arrangements than the early speed-demon trashing or Bobby's ,ahem, eccentric guitar playing (brilliant and unique though it was).

Me, I love 'Don't Tell a Soul'. But then you knew I would. ;) So CK, you may (or may not) be interested in this, out September 27.
Matt Wallace's original mix before Chris Lord-Age got his mits on it, plus Tony Berg's aborted sessions, Tom Waits collaborations, and the full '89 Milwaukee 'Inconcerated' gig.
Image
Image
I'm not necessarily defending Stinson, just expressing my opinion that the 'Mats hit the downslope after he left.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Chairman Ralph » 05 Aug 2019, 1:11am

I'm not necessarily defending Stinson, just expressing my opinion that the 'Mats hit the downslope after he left.
I'd say likewise, though from '87 onwards, the 'Mats essentially became two different bands. There's the live 'Mats, which people were still willing enough to support, and the studio 'Mats, who struggled to capture that excitement on tape. I consider Don't Tell A Soul a potentially good album that's strangled by the production -- or what passed for it in the '80s, anyway. Though I wouldn't mind checking out the above release, if only to hear what it sounded like before all the gloop crept into the grooves.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 05 Aug 2019, 4:58am

I bought the Mats first single back in the day then I bought each album as they were released . When I first heard Don't Tell a Soul I was mortified to say the least. But over the years I have grown to love those final two records. Even though the last one could be considered Paul's first solo album.

I guess my taste has mellowed from the days of crash bang wallop. But each Mats album has it's own charm.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Chairman Ralph » 05 Aug 2019, 5:26am

I bought the Mats first single back in the day then I bought each album as they were released . When I first heard Don't Tell a Soul I was mortified to say the least. But over the years I have grown to love those final two records. Even though the last one could be considered Paul's first solo album.

I guess my taste has mellowed from the days of crash bang wallop. But each Mats album has it's own charm.
Oh, sure. I don't necessarily need a steady diet of crash bang wallop myself, 24/7, even if it happens to be among my go-to preferences. My issue with Don't Tell A Soul isn't so much the songs. I just think they're poorly served by the production. By all accounts, it was a troubled affair from the get go, so all things considered, it's amazing that they got it done, I guess.

All Shook Down has some good songs on it, too, though -- as you point out -- it's effectively Paul's solo album, since the whole band really only plays together on one track, if I recall correctly. They did a fair chunk of it live, too, which says something, I suspect.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Kory » 05 Aug 2019, 12:54pm

I'm a heavy purist about this stuff, won't go see a band live unless they meet an original member ratio. On record too, but I also get pissed if a particularly important member leaves: Go4, The Specials, The Selecter, New Order. I get kind of weird about Magazine without McGeoch, though I still like and listen, I almost don't consider them the same band. Banshees are an exception because their whole career was based on rotating guitarists. Interpol is a big exception too, I don't think Carlos D really added anything essential to their sound, in drastic contrast with most of their fans.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Flex » 05 Aug 2019, 1:26pm

I used to be more purist about this stuff but now I'm more like "whatever". If the new record isn't good I won't buy it, and if the post-peak lineup has a bad live rep I won't go, but I'm not gonna cut myself off from, say, a fun night out seeing the current lineup of The Specials just because it wouldn't be as theoretically pure as a version of the lineup that hasn't existed since before I was born. I find this stuff usually sorts itself out - it's not that I don't listen to the post-Morrison Doors albums specifically because I refuse to consider them The Doors - I don't listen to them because they aren't very good. Ditto post-DLR Van Halen and other such examples.

It's funny because most of the bands I'm most passionate about (The Clash, Beach Boys, etc.) I spend probably unhealthy amounts of time excavating their post-True Lineup works to understand what lies beneath the grotesqueries of, say, Summer in Paradise or Cut the Crap.

Addendum: The Who is a pretty interesting example. I don't really have any time for any of their albums post-Keith Moon but I've still really enjoyed seeing them live a couple times in the last few years.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Kory » 05 Aug 2019, 1:31pm

Flex wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 1:26pm
I used to be more purist about this stuff but now I'm more like "whatever". If the new record isn't good I won't buy it, and if the post-peak lineup has a bad live rep I won't go, but I'm not gonna cut myself off from, say, a fun night out seeing the current lineup of The Specials just because it wouldn't be as theoretically pure as a version of the lineup that hasn't existed since before I was born. I find this stuff usually sorts itself out - it's not that I don't listen to the post-Morrison Doors albums specifically because I refuse to consider them The Doors - I don't listen to them because they aren't very good. Ditto post-DLR Van Halen and other such examples.

It's funny because most of the bands I'm most passionate about (The Clash, Beach Boys, etc.) I spend probably unhealthy amounts of time excavating their post-True Lineup works to understand what lies beneath the grotesqueries of, say, Summer in Paradise or Cut the Crap.
I might consider seeing the Specials live but without Roddy and Neville particularly, it's hard to justify the price and time.
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
Developers (Developers Developers)
Boogie With Your Children

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Flex » 05 Aug 2019, 1:34pm

Kory wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 1:31pm
I might consider seeing the Specials live but without Roddy and Neville particularly, it's hard to justify the price and time.
Price point is definitely a factor. I'm not seeing The Who on this tour because the face value cost of even the cheap seat tickets to see them are like $125+

I think my ticket to The Specials a year or two ago was like $35/$40 which was pretty fair, all things considered.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by tepista » 05 Aug 2019, 2:07pm

Marky Dread wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 3:39am
Inder wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 1:59am
What about the Bob-less Replacements?
Still a great band even with the loss of such a character. One of the band's that still managed to be awesome even with loss of a key member.
If any band is properly named for losing a member, right?
We reach the parts other combos cannot reach
We beach the beachheads other armies cannot beach
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread » 05 Aug 2019, 3:46pm

tepista wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 2:07pm
Marky Dread wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 3:39am
Inder wrote:
04 Aug 2019, 1:59am
What about the Bob-less Replacements?
Still a great band even with the loss of such a character. One of the band's that still managed to be awesome even with loss of a key member.
If any band is properly named for losing a member, right?
Ha yes!
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by 101Walterton » 05 Aug 2019, 7:00pm

Kory wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 1:31pm
Flex wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 1:26pm
I used to be more purist about this stuff but now I'm more like "whatever". If the new record isn't good I won't buy it, and if the post-peak lineup has a bad live rep I won't go, but I'm not gonna cut myself off from, say, a fun night out seeing the current lineup of The Specials just because it wouldn't be as theoretically pure as a version of the lineup that hasn't existed since before I was born. I find this stuff usually sorts itself out - it's not that I don't listen to the post-Morrison Doors albums specifically because I refuse to consider them The Doors - I don't listen to them because they aren't very good. Ditto post-DLR Van Halen and other such examples.

It's funny because most of the bands I'm most passionate about (The Clash, Beach Boys, etc.) I spend probably unhealthy amounts of time excavating their post-True Lineup works to understand what lies beneath the grotesqueries of, say, Summer in Paradise or Cut the Crap.
I might consider seeing the Specials live but without Roddy and Neville particularly, it's hard to justify the price and time.
The Specials without Jerry wasn’t right but it didn’t affect their live sound and as they weren’t making new records Jerry’s input was not missed. However agree with your comments about Neville and Roddy.
As much as I love Encore it is not s ‘Specials’ album.

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