Music opinion/question of the week...

General music discussion.
Dr. Medulla
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Dr. Medulla »

WestwayKid wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 7:53am
It's interesting to think how the culture of music consumption has changed. Even "coming of age" musically in the early-to-mid 90's - I was stuck with what I could physically find around town. That often meant driving from record store to record store looking for something - which I'll admit was a lot of fun. I was lucky that Milwaukee was a big enough town that we had some great indie record shops (most of which are gone). I always at least had a fighting chance of finding the import I was after. I'd read reviews in British music magazines and then set about trying to track down the recordings in the US and sometimes I'd be out of luck. I remember desperately wanting to get my hands on a copy of "The Definitive Missing Link Recordings" by the Birthday Party - but it was just not available. I even asked the big local indie record shop in town to try and track it down and they couldn't.
You might wish to track down Simon Reynold's grouchy old man book, Retromania, where he whines about how there's no new music being created—it's all pastiche of what's come before—and that these darn kids today don't know the orgasmic thrill of the hunt because the Internet makes it too easy to find what you're looking for. In general, it was so much better when he was younger. Yeah, as someone who grew up in a backwater prairie town in the 70s and 80s, my access to the obscure was, charitably, limited. I'd occasionally find copies of Goldmine, which advertised bootleg and import retailers' lists, and it was almost like a taunt—ha ha, you dumb poor kid, these things exist but you can't afford them! I'll never be persuaded that it was better when supplies and access were limited to those with greater means.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by WestwayKid »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 8:10am
WestwayKid wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 7:53am
It's interesting to think how the culture of music consumption has changed. Even "coming of age" musically in the early-to-mid 90's - I was stuck with what I could physically find around town. That often meant driving from record store to record store looking for something - which I'll admit was a lot of fun. I was lucky that Milwaukee was a big enough town that we had some great indie record shops (most of which are gone). I always at least had a fighting chance of finding the import I was after. I'd read reviews in British music magazines and then set about trying to track down the recordings in the US and sometimes I'd be out of luck. I remember desperately wanting to get my hands on a copy of "The Definitive Missing Link Recordings" by the Birthday Party - but it was just not available. I even asked the big local indie record shop in town to try and track it down and they couldn't.
You might wish to track down Simon Reynold's grouchy old man book, Retromania, where he whines about how there's no new music being created—it's all pastiche of what's come before—and that these darn kids today don't know the orgasmic thrill of the hunt because the Internet makes it too easy to find what you're looking for. In general, it was so much better when he was younger. Yeah, as someone who grew up in a backwater prairie town in the 70s and 80s, my access to the obscure was, charitably, limited. I'd occasionally find copies of Goldmine, which advertised bootleg and import retailers' lists, and it was almost like a taunt—ha ha, you dumb poor kid, these things exist but you can't afford them! I'll never be persuaded that it was better when supplies and access were limited to those with greater means.
I agree 100%. I remember those lists of high priced boots/imports...or even just seeing them in the record store. The ability to find whatever I want within minutes is incredible. Hooray for technology!

It used to be very, very hard to track down certain recordings. I really got into the Church around 1991/2 and so many of their albums simply were not available to me. I could only imagine what they sounded like. Even a decade later when I had the money to actually search for those early albums - it was still an effort. I had to track them down on eBay and purchase pricey Aussie imports...but now if I wanted a copy of "Seance" I could grab it online for $9.99 (or less). I MUCH prefer the way things are now.

Sure, the search was fun...but ultimately we searched because we loved music and wanted to actually hear the new sounds we were after. The fact that kids today can do that is really cool.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Dr. Medulla »

WestwayKid wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 8:42am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 8:10am
WestwayKid wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 7:53am
It's interesting to think how the culture of music consumption has changed. Even "coming of age" musically in the early-to-mid 90's - I was stuck with what I could physically find around town. That often meant driving from record store to record store looking for something - which I'll admit was a lot of fun. I was lucky that Milwaukee was a big enough town that we had some great indie record shops (most of which are gone). I always at least had a fighting chance of finding the import I was after. I'd read reviews in British music magazines and then set about trying to track down the recordings in the US and sometimes I'd be out of luck. I remember desperately wanting to get my hands on a copy of "The Definitive Missing Link Recordings" by the Birthday Party - but it was just not available. I even asked the big local indie record shop in town to try and track it down and they couldn't.
You might wish to track down Simon Reynold's grouchy old man book, Retromania, where he whines about how there's no new music being created—it's all pastiche of what's come before—and that these darn kids today don't know the orgasmic thrill of the hunt because the Internet makes it too easy to find what you're looking for. In general, it was so much better when he was younger. Yeah, as someone who grew up in a backwater prairie town in the 70s and 80s, my access to the obscure was, charitably, limited. I'd occasionally find copies of Goldmine, which advertised bootleg and import retailers' lists, and it was almost like a taunt—ha ha, you dumb poor kid, these things exist but you can't afford them! I'll never be persuaded that it was better when supplies and access were limited to those with greater means.
I agree 100%. I remember those lists of high priced boots/imports...or even just seeing them in the record store. The ability to find whatever I want within minutes is incredible. Hooray for technology!

It used to be very, very hard to track down certain recordings. I really got into the Church around 1991/2 and so many of their albums simply were not available to me. I could only imagine what they sounded like. Even a decade later when I had the money to actually search for those early albums - it was still an effort. I had to track them down on eBay and purchase pricey Aussie imports...but now if I wanted a copy of "Seance" I could grab it online for $9.99 (or less). I MUCH prefer the way things are now.

Sure, the search was fun...but ultimately we searched because we loved music and wanted to actually hear the new sounds we were after. The fact that kids today can do that is really cool.
Napster was like breaching the walls of the tsar's palace and getting access to all that good stuff. It was just a matter of figuring out what to search for. Fuck Reynolds, my nostalgia is for when P2P first showed up and opened the gates wide.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by WestwayKid »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 9:17am
WestwayKid wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 8:42am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 8:10am
WestwayKid wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 7:53am
It's interesting to think how the culture of music consumption has changed. Even "coming of age" musically in the early-to-mid 90's - I was stuck with what I could physically find around town. That often meant driving from record store to record store looking for something - which I'll admit was a lot of fun. I was lucky that Milwaukee was a big enough town that we had some great indie record shops (most of which are gone). I always at least had a fighting chance of finding the import I was after. I'd read reviews in British music magazines and then set about trying to track down the recordings in the US and sometimes I'd be out of luck. I remember desperately wanting to get my hands on a copy of "The Definitive Missing Link Recordings" by the Birthday Party - but it was just not available. I even asked the big local indie record shop in town to try and track it down and they couldn't.
You might wish to track down Simon Reynold's grouchy old man book, Retromania, where he whines about how there's no new music being created—it's all pastiche of what's come before—and that these darn kids today don't know the orgasmic thrill of the hunt because the Internet makes it too easy to find what you're looking for. In general, it was so much better when he was younger. Yeah, as someone who grew up in a backwater prairie town in the 70s and 80s, my access to the obscure was, charitably, limited. I'd occasionally find copies of Goldmine, which advertised bootleg and import retailers' lists, and it was almost like a taunt—ha ha, you dumb poor kid, these things exist but you can't afford them! I'll never be persuaded that it was better when supplies and access were limited to those with greater means.
I agree 100%. I remember those lists of high priced boots/imports...or even just seeing them in the record store. The ability to find whatever I want within minutes is incredible. Hooray for technology!

It used to be very, very hard to track down certain recordings. I really got into the Church around 1991/2 and so many of their albums simply were not available to me. I could only imagine what they sounded like. Even a decade later when I had the money to actually search for those early albums - it was still an effort. I had to track them down on eBay and purchase pricey Aussie imports...but now if I wanted a copy of "Seance" I could grab it online for $9.99 (or less). I MUCH prefer the way things are now.

Sure, the search was fun...but ultimately we searched because we loved music and wanted to actually hear the new sounds we were after. The fact that kids today can do that is really cool.
Napster was like breaching the walls of the tsar's palace and getting access to all that good stuff. It was just a matter of figuring out what to search for. Fuck Reynolds, my nostalgia is for when P2P first showed up and opened the gates wide.
Ha, ha...exactly and I love how you describe the rise of Napster because that is what it felt like!
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Wolter »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 9:17am
WestwayKid wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 8:42am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 8:10am
WestwayKid wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 7:53am
It's interesting to think how the culture of music consumption has changed. Even "coming of age" musically in the early-to-mid 90's - I was stuck with what I could physically find around town. That often meant driving from record store to record store looking for something - which I'll admit was a lot of fun. I was lucky that Milwaukee was a big enough town that we had some great indie record shops (most of which are gone). I always at least had a fighting chance of finding the import I was after. I'd read reviews in British music magazines and then set about trying to track down the recordings in the US and sometimes I'd be out of luck. I remember desperately wanting to get my hands on a copy of "The Definitive Missing Link Recordings" by the Birthday Party - but it was just not available. I even asked the big local indie record shop in town to try and track it down and they couldn't.
You might wish to track down Simon Reynold's grouchy old man book, Retromania, where he whines about how there's no new music being created—it's all pastiche of what's come before—and that these darn kids today don't know the orgasmic thrill of the hunt because the Internet makes it too easy to find what you're looking for. In general, it was so much better when he was younger. Yeah, as someone who grew up in a backwater prairie town in the 70s and 80s, my access to the obscure was, charitably, limited. I'd occasionally find copies of Goldmine, which advertised bootleg and import retailers' lists, and it was almost like a taunt—ha ha, you dumb poor kid, these things exist but you can't afford them! I'll never be persuaded that it was better when supplies and access were limited to those with greater means.
I agree 100%. I remember those lists of high priced boots/imports...or even just seeing them in the record store. The ability to find whatever I want within minutes is incredible. Hooray for technology!

It used to be very, very hard to track down certain recordings. I really got into the Church around 1991/2 and so many of their albums simply were not available to me. I could only imagine what they sounded like. Even a decade later when I had the money to actually search for those early albums - it was still an effort. I had to track them down on eBay and purchase pricey Aussie imports...but now if I wanted a copy of "Seance" I could grab it online for $9.99 (or less). I MUCH prefer the way things are now.

Sure, the search was fun...but ultimately we searched because we loved music and wanted to actually hear the new sounds we were after. The fact that kids today can do that is really cool.
Napster was like breaching the walls of the tsar's palace and getting access to all that good stuff. It was just a matter of figuring out what to search for. Fuck Reynolds, my nostalgia is for when P2P first showed up and opened the gates wide.
I’m nostalgic for the golden age of music blogs where you could not only find rare/out of print albums you’d only heard about, but you could also occasionally get recommendations of amazing albums you’d never heard of from obsessive fans excited to share things.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread »

WestwayKid wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 7:53am
Marky Dread wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 7:12am
WestwayKid wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 6:53am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 6:37am
Two things come to mind:
1) When I was still a Top 40 Prairie Heston, my favourite band was The Cars. I found a late 70s bootleg of theirs from a radio concert series called "Supergroups in Concert." It was in excess of $50, which was a shitton of money in 1983 or so and to cash-strapped me. But I *needed* that record. So I saved my cash, regularly checking in on that record to make sure it was bought by someone else (ho ho, it's not like they were Rush!). And finally I bought it and … it sucked. Sure the sound quality was perfect but The Cars were sterile in concert. I held onto that bootleg until I converted to punk and traded that bastard in for, probably, some Sex Pistols boots. Several years ago, tho, I located and dl'd that same Cars boot and it still sucks.

2) Maybe ten years ago, after a more-lucrative-than-usual editing gig, I bought an original copy of PiL's Metal Box. I don't own a turntable, so it's never been played by me. It's just a thing that I had out on display for several years, but now it's in a (cardboard) box. That's not really faithful to your question because I waited until I had the money, but it's still a dumb splurge of something I always lusted for even tho I bought the record several times over in other formats.
That was definitely always part of the ritual - checking to see if it was still on the shelf!?

Not music related - but back in the early 90's - they put out the complete series of Twin Peaks on VHS and having been a fan of the series during its first run - I had to have it - but it was $99.99 and that was a lot of money for a teenager without a job - so first step was to get a job and then proceed to save up the money - which took a little while...but all during the process I'd stop at the store to make sure it was still there in it's shrink wrapped glory and when I was finally able to buy it - man - I felt like a king.

The quality of the box set was horrible - after all - it was VHS and they crammed a ton of episodes on each VHS cassette - but I re-watched the entire series many, many times with that set...but I was thankful when it was finally released on DVD!


When I first started collecting vinyl seriously in 1977 I used to be given bus fare and dinner money for school. I would walk most days to school and go without lunch so I could go into town and buy my next punk/new wave single.

The most expensive item(s) back then would've been two Sex Pistols bootlegs "Indecent Exposure" and the original "Spunk" album. Can't remember what I paid for them but they were very expensive at the time. None of the Clash/other punk singles I bought were expensive as I bought them on the day of release so they were just standard retail prices. Imagine a pristeen mint copy of "White Riot" only 99p. :approve:
It's interesting to think how the culture of music consumption has changed. Even "coming of age" musically in the early-to-mid 90's - I was stuck with what I could physically find around town. That often meant driving from record store to record store looking for something - which I'll admit was a lot of fun. I was lucky that Milwaukee was a big enough town that we had some great indie record shops (most of which are gone). I always at least had a fighting chance of finding the import I was after. I'd read reviews in British music magazines and then set about trying to track down the recordings in the US and sometimes I'd be out of luck. I remember desperately wanting to get my hands on a copy of "The Definitive Missing Link Recordings" by the Birthday Party - but it was just not available. I even asked the big local indie record shop in town to try and track it down and they couldn't.
I was very fortunate living in Reading in the 70s/80s we had around 10-11 record shops even more if you count some of big high store chains like W.H.Smiths and Woolworths. From the age of 13 through to 30 something not a single week passed by where I didn't buy some vinyl. As soon as I started work at 16 I would buy 3 albums a week or more. I was a vinyl junkie now I'm just a music junkie.

Plus I should add that Reading is just a half hour train ride to London and I would go in search of rarer items once a month. Also Reading would hold huge record fairs every few months so all bases covered.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by revbob »

Back in the day I used to go for a lot of imports for the rare tracks and sometimes better quality vinyl.

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Kory »

I tended to use P2P for the rarest of birds. As a young kid, it was difficult to even find the first Damned album on CD, but as I got older, those things started being more available locally (we only had the mall, so there was no chance of going to a cool niche shop). For me it was a matter of waiting for things to be in print on CD or finding it on Soulseek or something.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by WestwayKid »

This question arises from a spirited debate my sister and I had lounging around the pool last weekend. Which member of the Beatles had the best solo career?

To level the playing field somewhat - specifically - in the first decade after the band split (December 31, 1970 to December 31, 1980) - which member had the best solo career and you can define best in several ways: most critically acclaimed...most successful on the charts...whatever.

I went with Lennon. Plastic Ono Band (which technically was released a few weeks before 12/31/70) and Imagine were top notch. Some Time in New York City was not great...but Mind Games and Walls and Bridges were both pretty good (underrated in my opinion). You then have Rock 'n' Roll - which for an album of covers was pretty decent and then his "house husband" years before releasing Double Fantasy in December 1980 - which was a pretty darned good comeback album (I can even stand most of Yoko's songs). I think he managed to avoid collapsing under his own fame (though he came close around 1972). He remained a well rounded songwriter and the overall quality of what he released was generally pretty high.

My sister argued on behalf of George. All Things Must Pass is a classic (even with the whole "Apple Jam" sides). Living in the Material World wasn't bad...but then it's Dark Horse and diminishing returns as it started to sound like the music became less and less important. He was still capable of writing good songs - but it just didn't seem like the effort was there. It was making movies and attending Formula 1 races and then trying to dash off a solo LP here and there.

Paul's solo output is something I'm still trying to wrap my head around. I like a lot of what he released from 1970 through 1980 - but he also released a lot of crap. The idea of "Wings" might have been nice in theory, but when you're Paul McCartney do you really need to share songwriting space with Denny Laine and company? Paul was obviously very successful commercially, but did he tarnish his reputation by letting the quality control slide too often?

You can argue on behalf of Ringo if you want... ;)
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

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All Things Must Pass is probably my favourite of the solo Beatles records but, as good as that was, that's about it from George in terms of consistency. Good stuff here and there afterwards, but that was best single album.

John ends up in the same camp if you lump Plastic Ono Band and Imagine. After that, thar be mediocre dragons mixed with some rare, glimpses of the old genius.

Paul … well, he could still bang out some fantastic pop tunes, but if Ram was his best album of the 70s—my pick, anyway—it doesn't compare well with the above.

A bit of a roll of the dice for me, but I'll go with John. George was relying on more of a backlog of Beatles period songs compared with John, so I'll dock him the most miniscule of points there. But it's really a 1a and 1b for me.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by BostonBeaneater »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 8:12am
All Things Must Pass is probably my favourite of the solo Beatles records but, as good as that was, that's about it from George in terms of consistency. Good stuff here and there afterwards, but that was best single album.

John ends up in the same camp if you lump Plastic Ono Band and Imagine. After that, thar be mediocre dragons mixed with some rare, glimpses of the old genius.

Paul … well, he could still bang out some fantastic pop tunes, but if Ram was his best album of the 70s—my pick, anyway—it doesn't compare well with the above.

A bit of a roll of the dice for me, but I'll go with John. George was relying on more of a backlog of Beatles period songs compared with John, so I'll dock him the most miniscule of points there. But it's really a 1a and 1b for me.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Dr. Medulla »

BostonBeaneater wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 9:48am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 8:12am
All Things Must Pass is probably my favourite of the solo Beatles records but, as good as that was, that's about it from George in terms of consistency. Good stuff here and there afterwards, but that was best single album.

John ends up in the same camp if you lump Plastic Ono Band and Imagine. After that, thar be mediocre dragons mixed with some rare, glimpses of the old genius.

Paul … well, he could still bang out some fantastic pop tunes, but if Ram was his best album of the 70s—my pick, anyway—it doesn't compare well with the above.

A bit of a roll of the dice for me, but I'll go with John. George was relying on more of a backlog of Beatles period songs compared with John, so I'll dock him the most miniscule of points there. But it's really a 1a and 1b for me.
How could you forget the magic of Goodnight Vienna?

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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by Marky Dread »

As Doc mentions above "All Things Must Pass" is a fabulous album. But for me it's John all the way much more inventive with stuff like "Cold Turkey" "I Don't Wanna Be a Soldier, Mama" "Gimme Some Truth" etc. Compare John's classic solo singles against Paul's and there is no contest.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by JennyB »

BostonBeaneater wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 9:48am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 8:12am
All Things Must Pass is probably my favourite of the solo Beatles records but, as good as that was, that's about it from George in terms of consistency. Good stuff here and there afterwards, but that was best single album.

John ends up in the same camp if you lump Plastic Ono Band and Imagine. After that, thar be mediocre dragons mixed with some rare, glimpses of the old genius.

Paul … well, he could still bang out some fantastic pop tunes, but if Ram was his best album of the 70s—my pick, anyway—it doesn't compare well with the above.

A bit of a roll of the dice for me, but I'll go with John. George was relying on more of a backlog of Beatles period songs compared with John, so I'll dock him the most miniscule of points there. But it's really a 1a and 1b for me.
How could you forget the magic of Goodnight Vienna?

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I am not familiar with this album, so I am telling myself that it his effort at sounding like Cabaret Voltaire.
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Re: Music opinion/question of the week...

Post by JoseUnidos »

I vote John as well - on the whole I think his post-Beatles stuff was more musically adventurous than his ex-bandmates. If I had to pick the best solo post-Beatles album it'd be All Things Must Pass, hands-down.
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