The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Why isn't anything that Johnny has done post-Smiths very interesting? I find it hard to believe that Morrissey was his muse.
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Until his recent (and pretty dang good) solo albums, he's just been content to be part of someone else's game. It might make him uninteresting, but I kinda dig him for that "it's just about the music" attitude. I zipped thru his memoir several months. Not especially interesting, but it does suggest that he's a pretty level-headed guy who recognizes the bullshit of celebrity.
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Simple Johnny isn't any good on his own. He is a great guitar player who Can write great melodies and come up with fantastic riffs but he can not write songs of any great shakes. His solo records are average at best. His album he did with The Healers sounded like a poor version of Oasis. It's no surprise he played with The The and The Pretenders two well known established bands. People can hate away on Morrissey (rightly so) but all of Johnny's best work is as a member of The Smiths.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Marr joined The Cribs for a bit — I seem to recall the albums being pretty well received.
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
When he is playing on others material it frees him up. He is not a very good singer and should stick to the guitar. The same applies to John Squire.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
But the writing style of the Smiths was usually that Johnny would write the whole song using Andy and Mike as a canvas, and then Morrissey would add his vocals afterward. Taking Morrissey out of that equation should theoretically leave some awesome instrumentals at least.Marky Dread wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 5:40pmSimple Johnny isn't any good on his own. He is a great guitar player who Can write great melodies and come up with fantastic riffs but he can not write songs of any great shakes. His solo records are average at best. His album he did with The Healers sounded like a poor version of Oasis. It's no surprise he played with The The and The Pretenders two well known established bands. People can hate away on Morrissey (rightly so) but all of Johnny's best work is as a member of The Smiths.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
I'm going to listen to the solos again. I do appreciate his valuing of music above all else, but it seems that whoever he worked with would want him to be at his best—that would be the point of asking Marr to collaborate. If he turns in lackluster work, I imagine it being as disappointing for his collaborators as much for the audience.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 5:34pmUntil his recent (and pretty dang good) solo albums, he's just been content to be part of someone else's game. It might make him uninteresting, but I kinda dig him for that "it's just about the music" attitude. I zipped thru his memoir several months. Not especially interesting, but it does suggest that he's a pretty level-headed guy who recognizes the bullshit of celebrity.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
I'm not a fan of Electronic—somehow less than the sum of its parts—but his two albums with The The are outstanding. I don't think i ever heard anything by The Cribs, tho.Kory wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 6:26pmI'm going to listen to the solos again. I do appreciate his valuing of music above all else, but it seems that whoever he worked with would want him to be at his best—that would be the point of asking Marr to collaborate. If he turns in lackluster work, I imagine it being as disappointing for his collaborators as much for the audience.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 5:34pmUntil his recent (and pretty dang good) solo albums, he's just been content to be part of someone else's game. It might make him uninteresting, but I kinda dig him for that "it's just about the music" attitude. I zipped thru his memoir several months. Not especially interesting, but it does suggest that he's a pretty level-headed guy who recognizes the bullshit of celebrity.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
No this is wrong mate it does not take Morrissey out of the equation. Sure he would add the vocal take after the music but Marr would've had to have seen the lyric first and this is what inspires that music. Listen to how Mick talks about Joe "who couldn't write such a great tune when presented with such great lyrics".Kory wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 6:23pmBut the writing style of the Smiths was usually that Johnny would write the whole song using Andy and Mike as a canvas, and then Morrissey would add his vocals afterward. Taking Morrissey out of that equation should theoretically leave some awesome instrumentals at least.Marky Dread wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 5:40pmSimple Johnny isn't any good on his own. He is a great guitar player who Can write great melodies and come up with fantastic riffs but he can not write songs of any great shakes. His solo records are average at best. His album he did with The Healers sounded like a poor version of Oasis. It's no surprise he played with The The and The Pretenders two well known established bands. People can hate away on Morrissey (rightly so) but all of Johnny's best work is as a member of The Smiths.
Imagine John Rotten writing a song about teenage love instead of the lyric to Anarchy in the U.K. there's no way Jones would've come up with that guitar sound without that lyric.
The lyric is what inspires the feel of the song and Morrissey was such a strong writer with a very distinctive style.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
I'm sure Johnny said that he would often have no idea what Morrissey was going to sing over the top. I took that to mean he hadn't seen the words not that he didn't know the melody.Marky Dread wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 6:56pmNo this is wrong mate it does not take Morrissey out of the equation. Sure he would add the vocal take after the music but Marr would've had to have seen the lyric first and this is what inspires that music. Listen to how Mick talks about Joe "who couldn't write such a great tune when presented with such great lyrics".
Putting a little stick about. Putting the frighteners on flash little twerps
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
This corroborates other evidence, like some demos of songs that were cannibalized to add parts to other songs later. If Johnny had been writing for pre-written lyrics, how would he be able to trash those songs? Plus, we know that Oscillate Wildly, Money Changes Everything, and The Draize Train were all written and presented to Morrissey without lyrical guidance, but with the intention of having Moz write lyrics for them.oliver wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 7:10pmI'm sure Johnny said that he would often have no idea what Morrissey was going to sing over the top. I took that to mean he hadn't seen the words not that he didn't know the melody.Marky Dread wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 6:56pmNo this is wrong mate it does not take Morrissey out of the equation. Sure he would add the vocal take after the music but Marr would've had to have seen the lyric first and this is what inspires that music. Listen to how Mick talks about Joe "who couldn't write such a great tune when presented with such great lyrics".
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
I'm well aware that Johnny had already stockpiled a number of tunes in his bedroom. But come on guys are you suggesting he hadn't seen any of the lyrics Morrissey was puting to his tunes. There may well be times when the music came first but I will defy anyone to suggest he was not inspired by some of those lyrics and Morrissey's very distinct vocal style. A vocal style they even today splits it's audience with stuff like "Yeah The Smiths are great but I don't like Morrissey's voice" and people saying their best Smiths song is an instrumental and for no good reason other tham those vocals.Kory wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 7:25pmThis corroborates other evidence, like some demos of songs that were cannibalized to add parts to other songs later. If Johnny had been writing for pre-written lyrics, how would he be able to trash those songs? Plus, we know that Oscillate Wildly, Money Changes Everything, and The Draize Train were all written and presented to Morrissey without lyrical guidance, but with the intention of having Moz write lyrics for them.oliver wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 7:10pmI'm sure Johnny said that he would often have no idea what Morrissey was going to sing over the top. I took that to mean he hadn't seen the words not that he didn't know the melody.Marky Dread wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 6:56pmNo this is wrong mate it does not take Morrissey out of the equation. Sure he would add the vocal take after the music but Marr would've had to have seen the lyric first and this is what inspires that music. Listen to how Mick talks about Joe "who couldn't write such a great tune when presented with such great lyrics".
Oh and one other thing have you heard Johnny singing Smiths songs live, urgh!. Morrissey love him or loathe was one of the best lyricists of his generation. There would've been plenty of times when Marr saw the lyric before writing the tune/melody especially for a band who were so prolific at releasing 7'' single hits.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
I haven't read anything that suggests that Marr had read lyrics beforehand, except for early songs like Suffer Little Children or The Hand That Rocks the Cradle. But I have read a ton of anecdotes and interviews that suggest that nobody knew what Morrissey's lyrics or melody would be until they were in the studio, which is slightly bolstered by many demos having titles like "heavy track" or "fast one." Obviously we'll never know, but I think there's more evidence for the latter.Marky Dread wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 7:53pmI'm well aware that Johnny had already stockpiled a number of tunes in his bedroom. But come on guys are you suggesting he hadn't seen any of the lyrics Morrissey was puting to his tunes. There may well be times when the music came first but I will defy anyone to suggest he was not inspired by some of those lyrics and Morrissey's very distinct vocal style. A vocal style they even today splits it's audience with stuff like "Yeah The Smiths are great but I don't like Morrissey's voice" and people saying their best Smiths song is an instrumental and for no good reason other tham those vocals.Kory wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 7:25pmThis corroborates other evidence, like some demos of songs that were cannibalized to add parts to other songs later. If Johnny had been writing for pre-written lyrics, how would he be able to trash those songs? Plus, we know that Oscillate Wildly, Money Changes Everything, and The Draize Train were all written and presented to Morrissey without lyrical guidance, but with the intention of having Moz write lyrics for them.oliver wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 7:10pmI'm sure Johnny said that he would often have no idea what Morrissey was going to sing over the top. I took that to mean he hadn't seen the words not that he didn't know the melody.Marky Dread wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 6:56pmNo this is wrong mate it does not take Morrissey out of the equation. Sure he would add the vocal take after the music but Marr would've had to have seen the lyric first and this is what inspires that music. Listen to how Mick talks about Joe "who couldn't write such a great tune when presented with such great lyrics".
Oh and one other thing have you heard Johnny singing Smiths songs live, urgh!. Morrissey love him or loathe was one of the best lyricists of his generation. There would've been plenty of times when Marr saw the lyric before writing the tune/melody especially for a band who were so prolific at releasing 7'' single hits.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
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Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Well I'm pobably as well read as the next Smiths fan. It's fine to totally believe whatever you like I have no problem with that. Here's what I do know "Half A Person" was allegedly written on the studio's fire escape. Morrissey would also often right down the title of the song and Marr would try to write music he thought suited the title. Occassionaly they wrote face to face and would suss out the song structure to that but it's true he rarely knew the finished lyric. Now after you have made your first couple of songs and had a single released "Hand in Glove/Handsome Devil (live)" you surely can't tell me that you have no idea how the next single is going to sound when A) your guitar style is so distinct B) your singer sounds like no one else on the planet C) your music doesn't sound like any other band in the charts. Hey I know let's follow up "Hand in Glove" with a dico funk record or a heavy metal record or whatever. Best to stick this new sound we're creating and carry on with that.Kory wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 8:02pmI haven't read anything that suggests that Marr had read lyrics beforehand, except for early songs like Suffer Little Children or The Hand That Rocks the Cradle. But I have read a ton of anecdotes and interviews that suggest that nobody knew what Morrissey's lyrics or melody would be until they were in the studio, which is slightly bolstered by many demos having titles like "heavy track" or "fast one." Obviously we'll never know, but I think there's more evidence for the latter.Marky Dread wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 7:53pmI'm well aware that Johnny had already stockpiled a number of tunes in his bedroom. But come on guys are you suggesting he hadn't seen any of the lyrics Morrissey was puting to his tunes. There may well be times when the music came first but I will defy anyone to suggest he was not inspired by some of those lyrics and Morrissey's very distinct vocal style. A vocal style they even today splits it's audience with stuff like "Yeah The Smiths are great but I don't like Morrissey's voice" and people saying their best Smiths song is an instrumental and for no good reason other tham those vocals.Kory wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 7:25pmThis corroborates other evidence, like some demos of songs that were cannibalized to add parts to other songs later. If Johnny had been writing for pre-written lyrics, how would he be able to trash those songs? Plus, we know that Oscillate Wildly, Money Changes Everything, and The Draize Train were all written and presented to Morrissey without lyrical guidance, but with the intention of having Moz write lyrics for them.oliver wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 7:10pmI'm sure Johnny said that he would often have no idea what Morrissey was going to sing over the top. I took that to mean he hadn't seen the words not that he didn't know the melody.Marky Dread wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 6:56pmNo this is wrong mate it does not take Morrissey out of the equation. Sure he would add the vocal take after the music but Marr would've had to have seen the lyric first and this is what inspires that music. Listen to how Mick talks about Joe "who couldn't write such a great tune when presented with such great lyrics".
Oh and one other thing have you heard Johnny singing Smiths songs live, urgh!. Morrissey love him or loathe was one of the best lyricists of his generation. There would've been plenty of times when Marr saw the lyric before writing the tune/melody especially for a band who were so prolific at releasing 7'' single hits.
I seem to remember Johhny saying after he had posted a cassette through Morrissey letter box that Morrissey would often swap the bridge for the chorus and other parts of the songs structure to fit his lyric to best. So Morrissey has to be credited with vocal melody at the least.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: The All Smiths/Morrissey Thread
Didn't JM say that was the only song they ever wrote together? I.E. face-to-face in the same room?Marky Dread wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 8:34pmHere's what I do know "Half A Person" was allegedly written on the studio's fire escape. Morrissey would also often right down the title of the song and Marr would try to write music he thought suited the title.
Putting a little stick about. Putting the frighteners on flash little twerps